Murph
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Post by Murph on Apr 18, 2011 19:41:52 GMT -6
Got a question...
"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." John 20:17
Why did Jesus tell Mary not to touch Him?
He said it was because He had not yet ascended to His Father...
What did He mean by that?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 19:49:00 GMT -6
Jesus had yet to ascend into heaven and enter into the sanctuary, and He must go undefiled. A human touch would have done that. (at this point, Jesus had only gone to the lower parts of the earth to bring captivity captive).
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Murph
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Post by Murph on Apr 18, 2011 19:56:56 GMT -6
That is what I had thought...
But the SS lesson this Sunday says that He was telling her not to cling to Him...that their relationship had changed...
?
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Murph
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Post by Murph on Apr 18, 2011 19:59:14 GMT -6
I don't plan to teach it that way...I am going to stick with what you have said...It is what I thought and have thought all along.
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Murph
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Post by Murph on Apr 18, 2011 20:04:26 GMT -6
How would you approach that?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 21:02:11 GMT -6
That is what I had thought... But the SS lesson this Sunday says that He was telling her not to cling to Him...that their relationship had changed... ? Jesus would never push anyone away, I know this is a salvation text but I think it can apply, " him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (John 6:37), and if that interpretation be correct - how do we explain Him inviting Thomas to put his hand in the wounded side? If everyone shares the same lesson, like with a quarterly, then go after the inconsistency head on and then teach it just like you believe it. Be sensitive to the Spirit's insight as you continue to meditate on the passage. I'll see if I can find anything to add to it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 21:09:23 GMT -6
Ok, here is perspective which could be what the quarterly is trying to say . . .
This is from "The Gospel of John" by F. B. Meyer.
“They have taken away my Lord,” she said, “and I know not where they have laid Him.”
What could angel voices do for her, who longed to hear one voice only? What were the griefs of others in comparison with hers? In an especial sense Jesus was hers! My Lord! Had He not cast out from her seven devils?
Some slight movement behind—or perhaps, as Chrysostom finely supposes, because of an expression of love and awe which passed over the angel faces—led her to turn herself back, and she saw Jesus standing, but she knew not that it was Jesus. Supposing Him, in her grief and confusion, to be the gardener, she said that if He knew the whereabouts of the body she sought, she would gladly have it removed at her expense: nay, she even volunteered to bear it off herself.
Then He spoke the old familiar name with the old intonation and emphasis; and she answered in the country tongue they both knew and loved so well, “Rabboni!”
In her rapture she sought to embrace Him, but this must not be; and there was need for Christ to work in her love, with his high art, as the artificer may carve the stone, or engrave some legend on the intaglio. He therefore withdrew Himself, saying, “Touch Me not.” To Thomas afterwards He said, “Behold my hands and my side; reach hither thy finger”: because there was no danger of his abusing the permission, or leaning unduly on the sensuous and physical.
But Mary must learn to exchange the outward for the inward, the transient for the eternal, and to pass from the old fellowship with Jesus as friend and companion into a spiritual relationship which would subsist to all eternity. Therefore Jesus spoke of his ascension, and bade her look upward, and see, gleaming on high, diviner things. So she was prepared for the time when, in the upper room, she should continue steadfastly in prayer, and come nearer to Him whom she loved than ever previously.
Did you ever realize that the intonations of the voice of Jesus, which had passed unimpaired through death, suggest that in that new life, which lies on the other side of death, we shall hear the voices speak again which have been familiar to us from childhood? As is the heavenly, so are they who are heavenly; and as we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall bear that of the heavenly, and shall speak again with those whom we have lost awhile, and they with us.
Mary Magdalene went and told them that had been with Him, as they mourned and wept, that she had seen the Lord, and that He had spoken these things to her. But they, when they had heard that He was alive, and had seen of her, believed not.
***
So, then, rather than look away . . . look up . . . to a higher relationship.
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Murph
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Post by Murph on Apr 18, 2011 21:26:20 GMT -6
I think I see what is being said...
Thanks.
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Post by Bud on Apr 19, 2011 7:57:18 GMT -6
Very good discussion and thank you Virgil for that enlightenment.It really explains a lot.
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Murph
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Post by Murph on Apr 19, 2011 8:41:03 GMT -6
For an old dude...he is pretty good at splainnin'...
;D
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2011 8:54:16 GMT -6
Now if I could just remember where I left my car?
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Murph
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Post by Murph on Apr 19, 2011 9:06:50 GMT -6
I told ya not to take the tennis ball off the anteannneea!
;D
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Murph
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Post by Murph on Apr 19, 2011 9:07:28 GMT -6
Thanks again Virgil!
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Post by Keith on Apr 19, 2011 12:47:22 GMT -6
How would you approach that? If I may add to Virgil's wonderful informative: One of the many titles of our Lord is Chief Rabbi, and among a Rabbi's duties were the sprinkling of the sacrificial blood upon the altar, and in this case it was His own. Invite your class to learn about Rabbinical duties at a Synagogue and it will open up an entire new facet of our Lord Jesus!
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Murph
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Post by Murph on Apr 19, 2011 13:25:56 GMT -6
Thanks Keith...good idea.
I am still thinking about how Mary reconized Jesus when He spoke her Name. The commentary Virgil posted invited us to think about hearing the voices in Heaven once again that we heard when we were children...and how in our new life we would still reconize them.
I thought about my Grandmother. I had already been thinking about her. Her favorite hymn is "The Old Rugged Cross." She died when I was 12 years old...she was 58. I am now 64. I have missed her.
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Post by Keith on Apr 19, 2011 14:03:59 GMT -6
Thanks Keith...good idea. I am still thinking about how Mary reconized Jesus when He spoke her Name. The commentary Virgil posted invited us to think about hearing the voices in Heaven once again that we heard when we were children...and how in our new life we would still reconize them. I thought about my Grandmother. I had already been thinking about her. Her favorite hymn is "The Old Rugged Cross." She died when I was 12 years old...she was 58. I am now 64. I have missed her. I know Marilyn. I too have many family and friends I long to reunite with, and I believe it will be sooner than later!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2011 14:07:06 GMT -6
Glad you added that, Keith. " Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others" (Hebrews 9:21-25). It was by His literal blood that He saves us, and it is by that same blood that he sanctifies us, and not some water in a pool. A dirty sinner comes out of the baptistry a wet sinner, if he has not first been washed in the blood of Christ. Baptism pictures that blood, and we are continually washed through the washing of the water of the Word. I saw that excellant illustration by Harry Ironside: HOLDING ON TO SPIKES “ And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous in this generation” (Genesis 7:1). Noah, like Abraham, is a very striking example of one who has been declared righteous because of his faith. It was faith that led him to prepare an ark for the saving of his house, when there seemed no evidence of a coming flood. It was faith that led him to obey God and enter that ark, with all his family, when commanded to do so by God. Inside the ark all were secure until the deluge was over. They were kept by omnipotent power. The ark bore all the brunt of the storm. Noah and his household were shut in by God, who had Himself closed the door. The same hand that shut them in shut out all the unbelieving antediluvian world outside. The ark was a type of Christ. All who are in Christ are eternally secure. Suppose when the ark was completed God had said, “Now, Noah, go and get eight large, strong spikes and drive them into the side of the ark.” Imagine Noah procuring these spikes and doing as commanded. Then when each spike was securely fastened, let us presume that God said, “Come thou and all thy house and take hold of these spikes, and all who hang on the end of the flood will be saved.” How long do you think Noah and the rest would have been secure? I can imagine each one taking hold of a spike – then the waters rising as the rain poured down. In a few minutes they would have been soaked to the skin. Then think of the terrific strain on joints and muscles as the ark was lifted from the earth and began its perilous voyage through the raging waters. I think I heart Noah calling to his wife, “Mother, how is it going; all is well?” And she calls back, “I’m holding on. Do pray for me that I may be able to hold out to the end!” Soon poor Mrs. Ham would cry out, “It’s no use, can’t hang on any longer. I am going to backslide.” And she would let go and be swept away by the flood. How long do you suppose it would be before every one of them would be obliged to let go and so go down to death? Thank God, that is not a true picture of His salvation. He is not calling men to hang on to Christ. But just as Noah entered into the ark and found there perfect security, so every believer is in Christ and saved for eternity. It is not a question of our ability to hang on, but of Christ’s ability to carry us safely through to the glory. He who has begun the good work in us will perfect it until the day of manifestation. *** It wasn't those outside of the ark that was baptized unto Christ - they all perished, but it was those on the inside that were in Christ as He went through the flood of judgment for them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2011 14:10:33 GMT -6
Thanks Keith...good idea. I am still thinking about how Mary reconized Jesus when He spoke her Name. The commentary Virgil posted invited us to think about hearing the voices in Heaven once again that we heard when we were children...and how in our new life we would still reconize them. I thought about my Grandmother. I had already been thinking about her. Her favorite hymn is "The Old Rugged Cross." She died when I was 12 years old...she was 58. I am now 64. I have missed her. I know Marilyn. I too have many family and friends I long to reunite with, and I believe it will be sooner than later! I have two grandmothers that I believe that I will meet in heaven, but sadly, not my grandfathers . . . and so many of my relatives that are already gone (even a few that I witnessed to, but angrily rejected His loving gift of eternal life - they were sure that their own method, or their church's method, was much more superior than that Bible method of faith without works). And yet, I am glad that I have a spiritual family of brothers and sisters that I have meet in the Lord's work - including many online - that will be there, so I look forward to hugging their necks!
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Post by veterinarian on Apr 19, 2011 15:28:24 GMT -6
And yet, I am glad that I have a spiritual family of brothers and sisters that I have meet in the Lord's work - including many online - that will be there, so I look forward to hugging their necks! Amen! What a reunion that will be! [glow=purple,2,300](1 Corinthians 2:9) But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.[/glow]
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Murph
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Post by Murph on Apr 19, 2011 18:00:03 GMT -6
Haven't gotten to the part of the lesson that covers John 20:17 yet, but when I do I will try to post what finally comes out. We have had some interesting discussion on this question. Maybe we should ask more questions so we can have more discussions...I have enjoyed this very much and thanks everyone.
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