Omega
Junior Member
Posts: 119
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Post by Omega on Aug 2, 2006 9:26:41 GMT -6
The loss and gain of Eternal Rewards: Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Corinthians 3:13-15) This passage describes the possible potential gains and losses of the believer which will impact him for all of eternity, and in which the fire of God will strip away all falsity and religious hypocrisy of everyone who professes to be in Christ. Every mans work will be made manifest on "the day" as we all will come before the judgment seat of Christ (cf. 4:5; 2 Cor. 5:10). The stubble, hay and wood shall be consumed by the fire of God, and the gold, silver and precious stones built upon the proper foundation (Christ) shall stand the test of time. The teaching of true doctrines, abiding fruits of the spirit, holy living and stewardship are the Gold, silver and precious stones are the proper materials which are to be built upon the foundation. Religious hypocrisy, worldliness and false doctrines built upon the foundation will perish (be burned down) as stubble, hay and wood. Our rewards (lit., "wages," cf. 3:8) which are entirely Gods gift of Grace (cf. 1 Cor. 9:17; 2 John 8; Rev. 11:18) shall be given if our work abides. Disservice, inferior works, etc. (combustible materials) will be consumed by the fire of God's Judgment. The question we sincerely need to ask ourselves is, what materials are we building upon? The scriptures state that "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." 2 Corinthians 5:10. Will you receive a reward or will you suffer loss? Not every believer will hear Christ say unto them on that day "Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord." Unfortunately some will stand before the judgment seat of Christ in shame and regret their losses, while others will be given a higher status in God's Kingdom. Those who suffer loss will look upon the faithful as what they could have been while those who are rewarded for their faithfulness will look upon those that should have been. Let us strive so that we may one day cast our crowns before the feet of the Lord (2 Tim.4:8; Jam. 1:12; 1 Pet. 5:4; 1 Thess. 2:9) and stand boldly before the throne of God and receive His seal of approval. The word crown (stephanos) generally represents a wreath which the victor would receive after completing the race, and in compliance with the rules (cf. 2 Tim. 2:5). So let us run this race that is set before us with endurance (Heb. 12:1) so that we may receive an imperishable wreath/s (1 Cor. 9:25) which will last for all of eternity.
God Bless!
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Post by S F Lord on Aug 2, 2006 9:55:30 GMT -6
How can we then tell a sinner that through the blood of Christ his sins are forgiven and remembered no more?
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Omega
Junior Member
Posts: 119
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Post by Omega on Aug 2, 2006 10:11:39 GMT -6
How can we then tell a sinner that through the blood of Christ his sins are forgiven and remembered no more? That is a good question, you must be referring to Hebrews 8:12: Hebrews 8:12 - For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. This passage is often misunderstood. This cannot in any way mean that God somehow "forgets", this would be contrary to His omniscient nature. God cannot be all-knowing and then not remember which sins you have committed. The words "will I remember no more" is not to be understood in the same manner as humans would comprehend it. That passage means that God treats our sins as if they were forgotten, i.e., He will not charge our sins upon us and treats our sins which are forgiven as though they were never committed and to be recollected. God Bless!
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Post by Keith on Aug 2, 2006 10:39:05 GMT -6
Not every believer will hear Christ say unto them on that day "Well done, thou good and faithful servant... Yes, they're saved, but received no reward. They are the one's who are '...ashamed at His coming...': "And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming." (1 John 2:28 KJV)
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Post by S F Lord on Aug 2, 2006 11:52:40 GMT -6
The context of Hebrews 8:12 is dealing with God's covenant with Israel.
So no, I was not referring to it in my question.
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Omega
Junior Member
Posts: 119
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Post by Omega on Aug 2, 2006 12:06:58 GMT -6
The context of Hebrews also applies to the Church as well since it deals with the "New Covenant." The house of Israel can be applied in several ways: a). it can refer all who have descended from Jacob or the Jewish nation. b). It can also refer to the 10 tribes or the Kingdom of Samaria. c). or it can quite possible refer the people of God in general (cf. Rom.2:28-29; Rom. 9:6.) Regardless, there are many passages in scripture when Israel is spoken of can apply to God's people as well. Since the entire conxtext of Hebrews discusses the new covenant, God's promise to never again bring their sins into remembrance, it applies to the Church as well. If Hebrews 8:12 was not the passage you were referring to, it would have been beneficial if you had posted the passage you were referring to. My OP post is based on scriptural exegesis, IF you disagree with it then show me exegetically where I am in error.
God Bless!
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Omega
Junior Member
Posts: 119
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Post by Omega on Aug 2, 2006 12:21:03 GMT -6
S F Lord had stated that Hebrews 8:12 was not the passage which discusses God's ability to "forget" our sins or that which he was referring to. Can someone please show me where in scripture it states that God "forgets" our sins as S F Lord had said.
God Bless!
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Post by Keith on Aug 2, 2006 12:22:43 GMT -6
Born-again Christians can lose rewards through lack of service, but that service is considered AFTER salvation:
"And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:" (2 Corinthians 9:8 KJV)
Our sins however, were dealt with at the cross and cover past, present and future sin. For at the moment of salvation, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the Rapture:
"And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." (Ephesians 4:30 KJV)
Sins and iniquities of the saved are remembered "no more" [Greek 3364 - oume: not at all] (Hebrews 8:12), as they are "as far as the east is from the west" (Psalms 103:12).
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Omega
Junior Member
Posts: 119
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Post by Omega on Aug 2, 2006 12:31:57 GMT -6
Psalms 103:12 states that their transgression are "removed" as far as the east is from the west, it does not say that they are "forgotten." Furthermore, if God somehow "forgets" our sins, it would be contradictory to His immutable nature of omniscience. The double emphatic (ou me) does not make any implication that the transgressions are "forgotten", the aorist passive subjunctive of (mnaomai) means that the sins will not be brought back to remembrance as in divine pardon, not that He somehow forgets.
God Bless!
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Post by Keith on Aug 2, 2006 12:38:59 GMT -6
The Lord doesn't remember our sins at all Daniel. He has the power and authority to remember them, but He chooses not to. You're trying to make a point that doesn't exist.
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Omega
Junior Member
Posts: 119
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Post by Omega on Aug 2, 2006 12:55:16 GMT -6
That is what the exegesis of Hebrews 8:12 says, it's not me trying to prove a point that does not exist, but rather what the context of Hebrews 8:12 says. The proof is in the exegesis. Hebrews 8:12 is a passage that is often taken out of context my many including pastors. If you would like, I can go over every word in the greek and in their tenses and exegetically prove to you that it does not teach that God "forgets" our sins. If God chooses to forget, than that would posit a contradiction to His immutable nature of omniscience. In other words, we possess knowledge of our sin while God doesn't, we know something He doesn't which is an absolute contradiction to His immutable nature.
God Bless!
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Post by Keith on Aug 2, 2006 13:07:24 GMT -6
So tell me Daniel, if the Lord remembers our sins "no more", and they're "as far as the east is from the west", when will He bring our sins into account again?
I have to run an errand but I'll be back within an hour and I'll need Scripture from you...
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Omega
Junior Member
Posts: 119
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Post by Omega on Aug 2, 2006 13:25:54 GMT -6
So tell me Daniel, if the Lord remembers our sins "no more", and they're "as far as the east is from the west", when will He bring our sins into account again? I have to run an errand but I'll be back within an hour and I'll need Scripture from you... What scripture? I am not the one trying to prove that God somehow "forgets." Again, the context of Psalm 103:12 does not in any way state that God "forgets" our sins, that is adding to scripture what simply isn't there. It says that our transgressions are "removed" not "forgotten." The Lord will NOT (NEVER) bring our sins into account again, I never said that He would, I simply said that He does not forget them. Here are several questions I would like you to answer: a). Is God always "All Knowing" or is there a time or place where God somehow does not know everything? b). If God is always at all times All Knowing, if we can recall our past sins but He can't, would this imply that God is still somehow always at all times All Knowing? c). Did God forget that Rahab was a "Harlot" when he spoke concerning her through the Holy Spirit filled apostles? (James 2:25) or that Paul persecuted Christians? They are forgiven and never ever to be brought back to remembrance, the are not forgotten by and "absentminded" God. This is a theological error that many have fallen victim to. And I am curious to know what passage SF Lord was referring to since he was not referring to the passage of Hebrews 8:12 you and I cited. And if he is referring to Psalms 103:12 than he like you are in error, since Psalms 103:12 does not say anywhere in the context that God "forgets" our sins, but rather they are "removed." God Bless!
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Post by Keith on Aug 2, 2006 13:46:49 GMT -6
They are forgiven and never ever to be brought back to remembrance... Exactly! So stop arguing...
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Omega
Junior Member
Posts: 119
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Post by Omega on Aug 2, 2006 13:59:27 GMT -6
They are forgiven and never ever to be brought back to remembrance... Exactly! So stop arguing... I am not arguing, I 'm rebuking. Arguing makes me look bad. God not bringing into account our sins does not mean that He forgets them, big difference. You had stated in a previous post that God "forgets" our sins; The Lord doesn't remember our sins at all Daniel. He has the power and authority to remember them, but He chooses not to. You're trying to make a point that doesn't exist. I made a rebuke when I stated that the scriptures do not state that God "forgets" our sins as you implied in that statement, and to "forget" and not bring into account are not the same. ;-) Here is another example how when God promises to no longer remember our sins is taken as forgotten, they are not ever brought into account, not forgotten. This is found in Isaiah 43:25 which is mistaken by many to mean that God somehow "forgets": (Isa 43:25) I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins. zakar zaw-kar' A primitive root; properly to mark (so as to be recognized), that is, to remember; by implication to mention; also (as denominative from H2145) to be male: - burn [incense], earnestly, be male, (make) mention (of), be mindful, recount, record (-er), remember, make to be remembered, bring (call, come, keep, put) to (in) remembrance, still, think on, well. That passage does not state that God "forgets" our sins, but rather He will no longer bring them back to remembrance or make mention of it again. Do you understand bro? God Bless!
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Post by Keith on Aug 2, 2006 14:10:50 GMT -6
Points have been offered for consideration. Topic closed.
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