|
Post by S F Lord on Aug 3, 2006 12:29:16 GMT -6
The following is from the Divine Intervention web site entitled: "Why it will Happen"
However, anyone that hears the Gospel message before the Rapture and refuses Jesus' offer of salvation will not have the opportunity to be saved after the Rapture. God will "send them strong delusion" and they will believe a lie which will be told by the Antichrist, who we will discuss shortly:
Keifer, perhaps it can be said the the Left Behind series has done a great injustice to the world, based on the above, by implying that someone could be saved after the Rapture even though they heard the Gospel message but did not respond.
I find it hard to believe that any characters in that series had NEVER, EVER heard the Gospel message prior to the Rapture.
Yours, and others thoughts..
|
|
Omega
Junior Member
Posts: 119
|
Post by Omega on Aug 3, 2006 12:38:13 GMT -6
Revelation 20:4 - And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
People are clearly saved after the rapture, since this passage explicitly states that some are beheaded for not receiving the Mark of the Beast.
|
|
Omega
Junior Member
Posts: 119
|
Post by Omega on Aug 3, 2006 12:43:07 GMT -6
Also the "eternal Gospel" is preached to all peoples, there is not point in preaching the message of the Gospel if there is no chance of being saved after the rapture. This event chronologically occurs after the rapture.
Revelation 14:6 - And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2006 14:11:42 GMT -6
Kat sits back with a bag of popcorn, watching and reading..................................
|
|
|
Post by S F Lord on Aug 3, 2006 14:17:01 GMT -6
Hello Omega,
However, anyone that hears the Gospel message before the Rapture and refuses Jesus' offer of salvation will not have the opportunity to be saved after the Rapture
The point I'm trying to clarify is about those people who hear the Gospel message, invitation prior to the Rapture but refuse to act upon it. What the above, in red, is saying is that they've lost there chance.
|
|
|
Post by sybaelle on Aug 3, 2006 14:26:58 GMT -6
I thought you only lost your chance if you died without accepting Christ?
|
|
Omega
Junior Member
Posts: 119
|
Post by Omega on Aug 3, 2006 14:38:44 GMT -6
Hello Omega, However, anyone that hears the Gospel message before the Rapture and refuses Jesus' offer of salvation will not have the opportunity to be saved after the Rapture The point I'm trying to clarify is about those people who hear the Gospel message, invitation prior to the Rapture but refuse to act upon it. What the above, in red, is saying is that they've lost there chance. I can only say that the "strong delusion" ( energeian planes) literally means a "deceptive energy", which is pretty much stating that the fate of those who are under this deception (excluding the raptured church) would eventually and irrevocably end in destruction. 2 Thess. 2:12 reads: That they might "all" be *****ed, aorist subjunctive of (krino) "condemned", that is to say that their hardened hearts and obstinancy of the truth results in their eternal *****ation as their final destiny. God Bless!
|
|
|
Post by Keith on Aug 3, 2006 14:43:54 GMT -6
Keifer, perhaps it can be said the the Left Behind series has done a great injustice to the world Yours, and others thoughts.. The following commentary answers your questions. It was verified by my IFB Pastor and is believed by such prophecy scholars as Ed Hindson and Chuck Misler: Tick, tick, tick...Also Bob, it would be beneficial for you to include the rest of the original quote from that page stating who has and has not heard the Gospel up to the point of the Rapture...
|
|
|
Post by Keith on Aug 3, 2006 14:45:23 GMT -6
People are clearly saved after the rapture... Yes, they are. Read above...
|
|
|
Post by S F Lord on Aug 3, 2006 15:13:05 GMT -6
Let me ask the question with this example:
My cousin is un-saved.
I spend countless hours with him explaining the Gospel message. I invite him to accept Jesus as Saviour, he refuses.
1 Hour later the Rapture happens, he's left behind.
Can he still be saved during the tribulation, or has he lost his chance.
|
|
|
Post by Keith on Aug 3, 2006 15:18:38 GMT -6
Can he still be saved during the tribulation, or has he lost his chance. "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie..." (2 Thessalonians 2:10-11a KJV)
|
|
|
Post by S F Lord on Aug 3, 2006 18:42:08 GMT -6
I'll end my involvement with this discussion right here. Seeing that you are using rather large print in your last post tells me that perhaps your annoyed. I'm sorry if I offended you, I'm not trying to pick a fight.
My question was asked in the context of over 60 million LB series books out there with possibly the wrong message being put forth as to salvation for un-believers after the rapture. Thats all, nothing more. I was not trying to prove or dis-prove DI's website in the section I mentioned in my original thread.
|
|
|
Post by Keith on Aug 3, 2006 19:27:03 GMT -6
Seeing that you are using rather large print in your last post tells me that perhaps your annoyed. Not at all Bob. Just enhancing relevant parts of the verse... Please take into consideration God has His limit and makes warning not to harden one's heart (Psalms 95:8) or He will give them up as in Romans 1:24. This is but another reason the lost are implored that TODAY is the day of salvation (2 Corinthians 6:2c) because He hears them during His accepted time (2 Corinthians 6:2a) before their hearts are hardened. This is why those who hear the offer of salvation and refuse it are not saved AFTER the Rapture...their heart's are hardened: "Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, Today, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts." (Hebrews 4:7 KJV)This should be more than enough incentive to witness NOW more than ever before! But be not discouraged, for even if our witness bears no fruit, it is still a sweet savor to our Lord that we offered it for Him: "For we are unto God a sweet savor of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savor of death unto death; and to the other the savor of life unto life..." (2 Corinthians 2:15-16 KJV)Our witness is wonderful to God, both in those who are saved AND in those who perish, because we were representing Christ in our witness. MANY are saved after the Rapture, but it will be those who never heard the Gospel...
|
|
Murph
Moderator
Be kind to your web footed friends. Amen?
Posts: 69,088
|
Post by Murph on Aug 3, 2006 22:40:25 GMT -6
Jesus was in the news today. The newscasters talked about Christians in the United States who are praying for Israel. They said it was to make Jesus come. They said we are praying because we think Jesus will come sooner by praying for Israel. It was clear that they just don't understand. But still it was strange to hear about Jesus in the 6 o'clock news. It was even stranger to hear the way it was put. Jesus was not openly denied...but we were mocked...and in mocking us they mock Him, and in the mocking is veiled denial of our Savior and Lord.
If a person rejects Jesus today when it is easy to accept the gift of Salvation, there is little or no persecution, not in this country, then why should a person be willing to accept Jesus when it is hard? There will be great persecutions during the Tribulation. The Bible says during the Tribulation most all of the professing Christians will be brutally martyred. Those who are unbelievers today will more than likely be unbelievers tomorrow.
II Thessalonians has been disputed by many. Some claim no one who heard the Gospel and did not declare for the Lord prior to the Rapture can be saved. Another camp claims that there will be people who will be saved who heard the Gospel prior to the Rapture and point to Saul of Tarsus as an example and cite Hebrews 7:25 as proof.
Regardless of which position one holds the Bible says...
"...behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation." 2 Corinthians 6:2
"Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near..." Isaiah 55:6-7
"...choose you this day whom ye will serve..." Joshua 24:15
Amen?
|
|
Murph
Moderator
Be kind to your web footed friends. Amen?
Posts: 69,088
|
Post by Murph on Aug 4, 2006 5:57:17 GMT -6
The camps are also divided on the exact interpertation of Hebrews 6:4-6. But maybe this passage, if interperted to mean those who have not crossed over the threshold into true salvation ,but meerly only tasted of it, would apply to what this thread is discussing.
That passage, Hebrews 6:4-6, in my mind is comparable to the 12 spies going into Canaan. God had given them the land and the instruction was to go take it. All 12 went into the land. They walked in the land, saw the bounty of it, and probably tasted of the fine fruits of it, yet returned and rejected it. Of the 12, only Caleb and Joshua believed and they are the only 2 who survived the 40 years in the wilderness and finally entered into God's rest...granted it was temporary and only lasted for 40 years or so. The rest we seek will be for an eternity.
Amen?
The passage with regard to the 2 spies, Caleb and Joshua, has several applications. It is considered a picture of Salvation. Sometimes it takes years of wondering in the wilderness for believing Christians to cross over the Jordan and claim the promises of God. Even then there are battles to fight. A Christian life is not an easy one which is why the Lord tells us to count the cost. I know, I jumped onto another track...but it seemed to me, it needed sayin'.
|
|
Omega
Junior Member
Posts: 119
|
Post by Omega on Aug 4, 2006 7:40:18 GMT -6
The camps are also divided on the exact interpertation of Hebrews 6:4-6. But maybe this passage, if interperted to mean those who have not crossed over the threshold into true salvation ,but meerly only tasted of it, would apply to what this thread is discussing. That passage, Hebrews 6:4-6, in my mind is comparable to the 12 spies going into Canaan. God had given them the land and the instruction was to go take it. All 12 went into the land. They walked in the land, saw the bounty of it, and probably tasted of the fine fruits of it, yet returned and rejected it. Of the 12, only Caleb and Joshua believed and they are the only 2 who survived the 40 years in the wilderness and finally entered into God's rest...granted it was temporary and only lasted for 40 years or so. The rest we seek will be for an eternity. Amen? These verses found in Hebrews 6:4-6 refers to a hypothetical situation whereby the author stresses what would happen to a saved person if he could fall away. Since the expression "partakers of the Holy Ghost" ( metochos pneumatos hagiou) implies Genuine Spiritual experiences, meaning that these would be saved people. The same with "Tasted of the Heavenly Gift" first aorist participle of ( geuo - geusamenous), the same found in the passage of Hebrews 2:19 where it states that Christ had "taste" ( geuomai) death for every man [lit. see death]. So tasted means to partake of something completely! Regardless, the author does not believe that a person is able to lose their salvation, or that his readers had (v. 9); but he so speaks to demonstrate the folly some might have in imagining that they can turn back to Judaism without suffering loss. The author is not writing about his readers (v.4, those), he still is writing for their sakes (v.9, you). If they shall fall away is the translation given to the fifth participle of the passage. This is a legitimate and even common grammatical usage by the author within the warning passages (2:3; 10:26; 6:8). The first four participles refer to actual blessings whereas number five describes a potential situation, and so can be translated unlike the first four. God Bless!
|
|
|
Post by Keith on Aug 4, 2006 9:06:08 GMT -6
...first aorist participle...the fifth participle of the passage....The first four participles...
|
|
|
Post by Steve on Aug 4, 2006 10:59:07 GMT -6
...first aorist participle...the fifth participle of the passage....The first four participles... ...or for those of us who should have paid more attention in class...
|
|
Murph
Moderator
Be kind to your web footed friends. Amen?
Posts: 69,088
|
Post by Murph on Aug 4, 2006 15:19:17 GMT -6
...or for those of us who should have paid more attention in class... I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. It is all just "Greek" to me... ;D
|
|
ldysly
Advanced Member
Lord make me thy servant.
Posts: 1,732
|
Post by ldysly on Aug 4, 2006 19:16:50 GMT -6
OK I may regret this but I gotta put in my .02 here. What about the Jews? They certainly know the Gospel, it is a great point of contention that they rejected Christ and continue to wait for the Messiah. And yet we know that in the end many of them will come to Christ.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Rev 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad [were] sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses [were] sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar [were] sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin [were] sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:9 ΒΆ After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, [be] unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Rev 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
The multitude can not be numbered and I just can't believe that there are that many in this day and time who have not heard the Gospel. The Jews know the Gospel and still reject Christ as Saviour so how can we say that it will only be those who have never heard the Gospel? Just MHO.
|
|