Murph
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Be kind to your web footed friends. Amen?
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Post by Murph on Feb 19, 2012 17:41:43 GMT -6
A friend is posting on facebook and posing some interesting quesitons...
one of them is intriguing and how would you all answer it...
What does it mean to believe?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2012 18:28:32 GMT -6
We talk of saving faith, but we could just as easily speak of "trusting" faith. It is trusting with your heart, that is, your entire being, that Jesus is and that He is able to do what He promised to do . . . in this case, to pay to the uttermost our sin debt to God and provide us a full and free assurance that we will go to be with Him when we depart this life. In fact, we are already "seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" so far as He is concerned.
That is about as simple as it can be explained. Belief is trust. It is not required that we fully understand what or who we are trusting in, only that we do.
Since this is a one-time event with eternal results, it is possible to backslide as a Christian and forget how to trust . . . but God doesn't.
"It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself" (II Timothy 2:11-13).
There are great rewards for faithfulness and continually abiding in Christ . . . but when we are not, God keeps His end. We may lose all of our heavenly rewards and basically enter the gates empty-handed, but God is still faithful.
Many times, failure on our part is due to great anxiety, and even physical ill-health . . . and yet I am intrigued by the promises made to us in I Corinthians, which, frankly, I cannot understand!
"I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ; That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord" (I Corinthians 1:4-9).
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Post by Keith on Feb 20, 2012 7:58:36 GMT -6
What does it mean to believe? "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1)"An excellent description of faith by the effects, because it represents things which are but yet in hope, and sets as it were before our eyes things that are invisible." Geneva Bible Translation Notes
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Murph
Moderator
Be kind to your web footed friends. Amen?
Posts: 69,180
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Post by Murph on Feb 20, 2012 12:41:23 GMT -6
here is another good question someone else has asked...
there are two quesiton here...
"What about the souls of people who lived and died before Christ came to earth to deliver God's message and do many Christians use the story of the cross as a 'free' ticket to commit sin knowing that if they ask for forgivenss, all will be forgiven."
These are friends and people who are from my hometown but now live all over. Interesting stuff.
So how would ya'll answer these questions?
here is my answer...to the first one.
"Hebrews 11, to me, contains the key to that answer. All the saints in the OT believed, had faith that God was going to take care of their sins…tho they didn’t know exactly how. They had faith in God’s power and promises, and because of their faith God counted it to them as righteousness. When Jesus died on the cross for sins…He died for theirs sins too, died for all the sins from the beginning, Adam, to the end. The last few verses of Hebrews 11 are the key. “And these all, having obtained a good report thru faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should be made perfect.” Vs. 39-40."
has to be short because it is Facebook...
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Post by veterinarian on Feb 20, 2012 14:00:16 GMT -6
"What about the souls of people who lived and died before Christ came to earth to deliver God's message ....." I don't have any verses to quote, but here is what I believe: God gave us creation to be a witness about Him, and all one has to do is to look, and then trust in the One who has designed/created that around us.
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Post by veterinarian on Feb 20, 2012 14:09:08 GMT -6
do many Christians use the story of the cross as a 'free' ticket to commit sin knowing that if they ask for forgivenss, all will be forgiven." I think that many people do use God's grace as an excuse for doing wrong. But God sees our every motivation, so I believe that He sees what these people are doing and will not forgive them for these sins. Again, I don't have verses to go with this one.
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Murph
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Be kind to your web footed friends. Amen?
Posts: 69,180
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Post by Murph on Feb 20, 2012 14:10:45 GMT -6
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse... " Romans 1:20
"Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another... " Romans 2:15
Witness of conscience and nature...is this what you are talking about? and are these the right verses?
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Murph
Moderator
Be kind to your web footed friends. Amen?
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Post by Murph on Feb 20, 2012 14:12:04 GMT -6
What this person is asking is how were people saved before Jesus died on the Cross? People in the OT.
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Murph
Moderator
Be kind to your web footed friends. Amen?
Posts: 69,180
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Post by Murph on Feb 20, 2012 14:14:50 GMT -6
do many Christians use the story of the cross as a 'free' ticket to commit sin knowing that if they ask for forgivenss, all will be forgiven." I think that many people do use God's grace as an excuse for doing wrong. But God sees our every motivation, so I believe that He sees what these people are doing and will not forgive them for these sins. Again, I don't have verses to go with this one. I agree and think you are right...
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Post by veterinarian on Feb 20, 2012 14:26:43 GMT -6
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse... " Romans 1:20
"Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another... " Romans 2:15Witness of conscience and nature...is this what you are talking about? and are these the right verses? Yes!
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Post by veterinarian on Feb 20, 2012 14:37:02 GMT -6
What this person is asking is how were people saved before Jesus died on the Cross? People in the OT. I agree with your answer above, talking about Hebrews 11. My only problems with this answer are as a result of my own lack of faith: I don't understand how salvation before Christ might work, so I find it easy to doubt that there could be salvation before Christ. I also know that God will not leave anyone behind who loves Him. So therefore, I know that God has provided some way for people to come to Him before the cross; but I do not know how that would work. I just have to trust Him.
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Murph
Moderator
Be kind to your web footed friends. Amen?
Posts: 69,180
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Post by Murph on Feb 20, 2012 15:21:42 GMT -6
Maybe Virgil or Keith or Drew will come along and explain it better...but as I understand their faith in the promise was counted by God as righteousness for them...
it is Grace...God's unmerrited favor that saved them same as saved us...
Salvation has always been by Grace thru faith...then as now...the same.
The passage in Hebrews 10 might help...
They belived something permanent was coming. They just didn't know what or Who...We know...it was Jesus and His sacrifice...and He did it once for all.
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Post by Keith on Feb 21, 2012 7:52:08 GMT -6
Old Testament saints were also saved by faith having been promised a Savior would come (Zechariah 9:9). When Jesus died and went to Paradise (Luke 23:43), He led the Old Testament saints to Heaven (Psalm 68:18 & Ephesians 4:8) where they, like Job, are now awaiting the Resurrection (Job 19:25-26):
"These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth." (Hebrews 11:13)
Another way to say it is: New Testament Saints look back on the Cross, Old Testament Saints looked forward to it.
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Post by veterinarian on Feb 24, 2012 15:42:05 GMT -6
At last, I have found a few verses to address the second question: .....and do many Christians use the story of the cross as a 'free' ticket to commit sin knowing that if they ask for forgivenss, all will be forgiven." People will give excuses for many things. But here is what John had to say: [glow=red,1,300](1 John 2:3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (1 John 2:4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.[/glow] and then again: [glow=red,1,300](1 John 3:6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.[/glow] I do believe that you cannot lose your salvation; however, if someone makes the decision to keep sinning (over and over again, on purpose) then I doubt that they ever truly accepted Jesus as their Savior.
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