heaven
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Post by heaven on May 4, 2013 18:47:31 GMT -6
Was reading one of Don Fortner Books today and turns out he believes in a possible gap period in Genesis 1:2. He used a excerpt out of Jamieson, Fausset and Brown Commentary. Using it as a theory and very possibility. Saying....
“This globe, at some undescribed period, having been convulsed and broken up, was a dark and watery waste for ages perhaps, till out of this chaotic state, the present fabric of the world was made to arise.” (Jamieson, Fausset and Brown Commentary).
Personally I don't believe in a gap period, but i'm wandering or rather want to hear what others think. Any thoughts?
On the other hand, Fortner believes this is when satan took his fall. With that I do agree. Any thoughts?
Gen.1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2013 18:53:12 GMT -6
Good Bible believers can be found on both sides of this issue.
My problem with it is that it forces upon us the existence of sin prior to Adam - and the Bible disagrees with that, as it states:
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come" (Romans 5:12-14). .
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heaven
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Post by heaven on May 4, 2013 19:13:45 GMT -6
Good point and very true, thank you.
Guess thats how I feel about it also. Just never considered that verse when ever I heard someone talk about a gap period. My thoughts were more along the line, Adam was the first man in this world. To hear scientist and evolution theories, they'll have you believe man existed before Adam. Plus the fact God created everything in 7 days.The heaven and the earth beginning part of the 1st day creation.
As for satan, satan would have taken his fall before Adam sinned. Therefore there was an evil that had already existed.
This is something I have worked on a for a some time now, and part of a study i've been working on, here and there over time. Trying to wrap my head around everything.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2013 19:16:44 GMT -6
Satan sinned, but not on earth - so, sin existed only in the heavenly sphere . . . if that can be easily comprehended.
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heaven
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Post by heaven on May 4, 2013 19:21:02 GMT -6
Yes, can easily comprehend that, makes perfect since to me.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2013 19:29:08 GMT -6
oops, hope that that didn't sound snooty . . . I wasn't directing it at you, but rather wondering if anyone can grasp the immensity of sin existing in heaven.
That must be why there is not only going to be a new earth, but a new heaven as well.
The Bible does tell us that Satan is still able to freely enter the throne room of God where he accuses the saints . . . such as Job.
Presently, at least, the wicked one has a revolving door into heaven itself.
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heaven
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Post by heaven on May 4, 2013 19:50:55 GMT -6
No, no i didn't take it that way at all. I'm sitting here literally trying to wrap my head around that first day.
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Post by Keith on May 5, 2013 8:13:31 GMT -6
Personally I don't believe in a gap period... Nope, us either. The Bible says what It means and means what It says.
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Murph
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Post by Murph on May 5, 2013 11:27:48 GMT -6
pretty much my position Keith. I explored the "gap" theory sometime ago and decided it is exactly that...a theory Had to ask the questions myself tho, to get to that position...it is good to question and get it settled in your own mind. Asking questions is how we learn.
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Post by Keith on May 5, 2013 13:59:12 GMT -6
Yep!
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heaven
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Post by heaven on May 5, 2013 15:35:14 GMT -6
Amen!
To everyone...
The gap theory isn't what I've been trying to wrap my head around. its the whole first day in general. This study I'm doing isn't just any study it's the first chapter of the book I've been writing. Have written several Chapters but this one keeps bringing me to a halt. Which in turns brings me to halt in other places. So just keep coming back to it and keep going over every detail that comes to mind. That's where my post comes in when I was considering these areas. Have read commentaries, looked up maybe every word and now reading out of different books. Lol, having fun doing it all, but can at times get a nerve racking when you find you still can't grasp certain areas. For i feel like some of the answers I'm looking for are right there in front of me but I'm just not grasping them yet. Also know when the Lord is ready for me to get it I'll get it and understand it. Till then I'll keep praying and searching. Hearing what others has to say helps, makes me think that much more, and that much deeper.
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Murph
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Post by Murph on May 5, 2013 17:18:43 GMT -6
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Murph
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Post by Murph on May 5, 2013 17:27:20 GMT -6
"...and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." Genesis 1:2b
I love the word picture this paints. The Spirit of God...Holy Spirit, often pictured as a dove...
the picture is of a Great Dove hovering over the waters. The motion of His Great Wings stirring up currents...causing movement in the air and in the waters...causing the earth to start rotating...
beautiful picture.
If you read a bit and close your eyes you can almost see it...as it happens...day by day, till the Lord, on the 6th day when He looked at all He had made and declared it to be very good.
Genesis to me is the best book in the Bible...
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Murph
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Post by Murph on May 5, 2013 17:58:05 GMT -6
Going back to the very first verse..."In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." There is a beautiful poem written by a black Baptist Preacher, long about the time of the Civil War, who wrote a collection of poetry, "God's Trombones." He describes creation so beautifully...so well that you can see God in the midst of His work. Well, I'll just leave you to read it for yourself...if you close your eyes you can just see God creating... suzyred.com/poemcreation.htmlThis is one of the reasons why I love Genesis so...the word pictures that are painted for us...if we will only close our eyes and ride the back of the Holy Spirit as He hovers low over the waters...and paints these wonderful pictures for us.
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heaven
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Post by heaven on May 5, 2013 21:34:30 GMT -6
That was beautiful to read, thank you for sharing it. ;D
I can't really say which of the Books of the Bible I like best. My favorite chapter though is Proverbs 8. Yet there are so many. God's Wisdom...it's just awesome. To see God's Wisdom leaves me speechless at times.
Here is something that just makes your heart melt. It's an excerpt from one of John Flavel's sermons. A friend of mine sent this to me. Flavel was speaking of what the Father and Son may have said to one another after sin entering into the world. Like you I like picturing these kind of things in my mind and heart. Considering the fact that God created everything so beautiful and all was good. Then sin entered in and the very thing God the Father was doing for His Son was on the verge of being eternally lost by that act of sin. Everything was created for Jesus and by Jesus (1 Col.1:16). And then to think how God in the very beginning was preparing a Kingdom for us (Matt.25:34). It was for Jesus, with Him as King of kings and Lord of lords. Anyway here is the excerpt from John Flavel's sermon, …”The Covenant of Redemption between the Father and the Redeemer” 1671.
The Father's Bargain
The Father: My son, here is a company of poor miserable souls, that have utterly undone themselves, and now lie open to my justice! Justice demands satisfaction for them, or will satisfy itself in the eternal ruin of them: What shall be done for these souls?
Son: O my Father, such is my love to, and pity for them, that rather than they shall perish eternally, I will be responsible for them as their Surety; bring in all your bills, that I may see what they owe you; Lord, bring them all in, that there may be no after-reckonings with them; at my hand shall you require it. I will rather choose to suffer your wrath than they should suffer it: upon me, my Father, upon me be all their debt.
Father: But, my Son, if you undertake for them, you must reckon to pay the last mite, expect no abatements; if I spare them, I will not spare you.
Son: Content, Father, let it be so; charge it all upon me, I am able to discharge it: and though it prove a kind of undoing to me, though it impoverish all my riches, empty all my treasures, (for so indeed it did, 2 Cor. 8:9. “Though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor”) yet I am content to undertake it.
When first hearing this, everything I knew I pictured in my own head and my heart just melted. We serve and awesome God.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2013 6:20:40 GMT -6
The grandest thing of all is that salvation is available to whomsoever will come . . . freely offered to any.
One must curse the day that some heretical preacher came up with the idea that God picks some unfortunates to a Christless eternity and picks a favored few to enjoy the riches of eternity with Him. The idea of a limited atonement was born in the depths of hell in order to confuse man into wondering whether or not he is one of the chosen.
Indeed, the most dangerous heresy of them all!
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Post by Keith on May 6, 2013 8:12:19 GMT -6
Amen, Virgil!
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Murph
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Post by Murph on May 6, 2013 9:32:19 GMT -6
Joining in that Amen...
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heaven
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Post by heaven on May 6, 2013 14:44:47 GMT -6
Hi, have been praying and thinking on your reply all day. Wasn't sure if i should reply back or not. Have to agree and disagree at the same time. Just how sure are you that salvation is for absolutely for anyone and everyone? Do agree however salvation is available to whosoever will come. But who it is that shall come? John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Please know I’m not trying to start a debate or anything like that, matter of fact I hate debates. But when reading your reply it just hit me and had to ask, Dear Father what do I do. This is in His hands.
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 17:9-11 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Whom did the Father give the Son?
Go the parable of the Wheat and the tares. Matt.13:24-30 and Matt.13:37-43
The man which sowed good seed in his field is the Son of man…..Jesus. (Matt.13:24; 13:37) The good seed in his field is the children of the Kingdom. (Matt.13:37-38) The field is the world. (Matt.13:38)
The tares however are the children of the wicked one the devil who is God’s enemy (Matt.13:25; 38-39) , and they will grow with the good seed till time of harvest (Matt.13:29-30). The harvest is the end of this world (Matt.13:39). When that time comes the tares shall be gathered and burned (Matt.13:40), they have not chance of salvation.
The question is now, whom did the Father give unto His Son? The tares whom the devil sown in or did the Father give His son the good seed? So therefore whom did Jesus die for? A world of tares or a world of good seed. God did not give His son tares to sow in, He gave His Son good seed to sow into the world, and that is who Jesus came and died for.
John 17:9-11 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
The Father did not give His Son tares to so into the world. Here’s the thing though not me not anyone knows who the tares are, but God does, it is He who searches heart ( Psa.44:21; Jer.17:9-10). Therefore we are even to love our enemies. Let God do the choosing, for He alone knows who is who.
There is no such thing as a limited atonement, only full atonement to whomsoever will come unto the Lord. So there we agree, BUT I’m speaking of all the good seed which were sown into this world by Jesus, not the tares. So there we may disagree. We can fully take God’s Word just as it says it and it says the tares are the children of the devil and sown into this world by the devil. They are here in this world today as we speak, growing alongside the wheat until the time of the harvest. They have no part of God’s Kingdom, never have and never will and they shall be burned.
It has nothing to do with picking favorites. It has everything to with the Righteous Will of God, and what’s right and wrong, this is His creation. He has kept an watchful eye out on everything that has taken place in this world and everyone. He has searched into the depths of every heart, He alone knows who is who. This isn’t just some theory or teaching that has been thrown out there but from God’s very Word.
Hope this doesn’t cause any bad feelings; just this is where I personally stand on this belief.
Lord Bless you all.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2013 15:01:41 GMT -6
I do not believe that God limits his grace to anyone . . . period.
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