Seminary???

[Caretaker]

Should pastors have seminary training?

www.katagraphais.com/index.php/2008/06/do-pastors-need-seminary/

C. H. Spurgeon, arguably one of the greatest preachers to have lived, did not go to seminary. I also personally know a lot of pastors who have not been professionally trained at a seminary who are also incredibly gifted, biblically faithful pastors. It is telling, however, that what these men have in common is that they spend large amounts of time in prayer- for their congregations and for their sermons. They also are incredibly well read, both in the Scriptures and in books by sound preachers and theologians. In other words, they are training for their calling, just not in a formally academic setting. It is also telling, I think, that one of the things Spurgeon set out to do, and did, was to build a school for the training of pastors- what we would today call a “seminary.”


hv.thevillagechurch.net/blog/hvpastor/?p=119

There is a recent trend of really sharp, entrepreneurial, driven men skipping seminary all together and planting churches. I don’t have a problem with this at all if those men have picked up the tools they need in other places and are continuing to grow theologically and philosophically. If a guy can handle the Greek and Hebrew, knows at least at the cursory level Christian history and can wrestle through and find answers for deep, difficult theological questions then he might not need a degree from a seminary. These men are usually driven, avid studiers and readers by nature. If they could, they would spend their whole day with the scriptures as well as with men like Calvin, Luther and Spurgeon. I said might because seminary then becomes an obedience issue between him and the Lord and may still be a very good idea.

On the other hand, if you don’t have the tools, have a tendency to be lazy in study, can’t handle the languages, know nothing of how to find answers to deep, difficult theological questions except to quote John Piper and know nothing of our rich history then you need to go get some tools. If you are lazy in study and continue to get in front of people and teach, you have much more courage than I do. I would strongly recommend seminary for its accountability and plan to educate you in doctrine, language and history.

[Caretaker]

What Is Homiletics ?

homiletics : the art of preaching. This is usually taught in a seminary, to the future ordained ministers of the church. The usual result is that the student who comes in with little ability to preach is able to become passable in speaking about gospel truths to a large group of people, in the form of a sermon or homily.

What is Biblical hermeneutics?

Hermeneutics is the science and methodology of Bible study interpretation. Biblical hermeneutics is perhaps summarized best by 2 Timothy 2:15, "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

The Bible says what it means and means what it says. Many make the mistake of trying to read between the lines and come up with meanings for Scriptures that are not truly in the text. Biblical hermeneutics keeps us faithful to the intended meaning of Scripture and away from allegorizing and symbolizing Bible verses and passages that should be understood literally.

Historical interpretation refers to understanding the culture, background, and situation which prompted the text. Grammatical interpretation is recognizing the rules of grammar and nuances of the Hebrew and Greek languages and applying those principles to the understanding of a passage. Contextual interpretation involves always taking the surrounding context of a verse/passage into consideration when trying to determine the meaning.

Biblical hermeneutics points us to the true meaning and application of Scripture. Hebrews 4:12 declares, "For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."

[Caretaker]

What is systematic theology?

The word theology comes from two Greek words meaning "God" and "study." Combined, the word theology means "study of God." Systematic refers to something be put into a system. Systematic theology is, therefore, the division of theology into systems that explain its various areas.

Paterology is the study of God the Father

Christology is the study of God the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Pneumatology is the study of God the Holy Spirit.

Bibliology is the study of the Bible.

Soteriology is the study of salvation.

Ecclesiology is the study of the church.

Eschatology is the study of the end times.

Angelology is the study of angels.

Christian Demonology is the study of demons from a Christian perspective.

Christian Anthropology is the study of humanity.

Hamartiology is the study of sin.

[Caretaker]

The great theologians of the past were also pastors.

www.founders.org/journal/fj43/editorial.html

Revival of the Pastor-Theologian

Every pastor is called to be a theologian. And both pastors and churches need to begin thinking again in these terms. This will happen when the Bible is regarded as sufficient for defining and directing pastoral ministry. All pastoral practice should extend from theological understanding which is rooted in the Bible. The primary question for a pastor's self-understanding is this: What does God say a pastor should be and do?

This question can only be answered in the context of biblical ecclesiology. When the order and officers of the church are considered, pastors will be recognized as the servant leaders of the church. Apostolic example and instruction provide content for this service and leadership. In Jerusalem the apostles were shepherding the church after Pentecost. In the context of responding to a divisive problem in the fellowship we are taught that those who pastor the church should give themselves "continually to prayer and to the ministry of the word" (Acts 6:4).

Similarly, Peter gives a comprehensive charge to pastors when He writes,

Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly; nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock; and when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away (1 Peter 5:1-4).

These verses address the character, motivation, manner, methodology and goal of pastoral ministry.

While the whole Bible should be perused to determine the nature and role of a pastor, Paul's letters to Timothy and Titus comprise the primary source for such study. They are called the "Pastoral Letters" for a reason. Both Timothy and Titus had pastoral responsibilities and Paul gives them apostolic instruction on how to fulfill their ministries. So it is somewhat amazing to see how many books and articles on pastoral ministry either ignore or give only slight attention to these three letters.

A careful reading of these three letters will show that what Paul repeatedly emphasizes to his pastoral colleagues is the importance of sound doctrine to their work.

In the 242 verses which comprise these three letters, which are in effect divinely inspired pastoral manuals, Paul uses the word, "doctrine" at least sixteen times. Theology was to be at the heart of Timothy's and Titus' understanding of what a pastor is to be and do. Consider of few of the points Paul makes about a pastor's doctrinal responsibility.

• He is to charge people that they teach only apostolic doctrine. (1 Timothy 1:3)

• He is to beware that some professing believers will depart from the faith and will be taken in by deceiving spirits and the doctrines of demons (1 Timothy 4:1).

• He will be a good minister of Jesus Christ if he teaches his brethren to see through ascetic gnosticism and he himself continues to carefully feed on good doctrine (1 Timothy 4:6).

• He is to give careful attention to doctrine (1 Timothy 4:13).

• He is continuously to take heed to himself and to the doctrine, with the assurance that by doing so he will save both himself and his hearers (1 Timothy 4:16).

• He is to aspire to become worthy of double honor by ruling well and laboring in word and doctrine (1 Timothy 5:17).

• He is to regard the Scriptures as being profitable for doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16).

• He is to preach the word because he knows that the time is coming when people will not endure sound doctrine (2 Timothy 4:1-4).

• He is be so doctrinally grounded that he can refute false teaching by sound doctrine (Titus 1:9).

• Everything which he teaches is to be consistent with sound doctrine (Titus 2:1).

• In doctrinal convictions he is to have integrity, be reverent and incorruptible (Titus 2:7).

How in the world can any man hope to pass the apostle's admission test to pastoral ministry if he is not committed to being a careful theologian?

It has often been said that a man has no right to be a theologian until he has become an exegete. That is certainly true because the Word of God is the fundamental source for all theological thinking. However, it is also true that a man has no right to become an exegete without going on to become a theologian. The Bible teaches theology and the exegetical task is not complete until theological confession, reflection and application takes place.

[S F Lord]

It is telling, however, that what these men have in common is that they spend large amounts of time in prayer- for their congregations and for their sermons.

That statement is the KEY, the most important thing that a Pastor can do is to be in PRAYER.

Jesus is our best example of a Pastor, Shepard. Throughout the New Testament be was constantly in prayer to His Father. He was not studying the Old Testament writings while He was in the Synagogue, He was teaching, preaching giving a sermon if you will. But it was preceded by prayer and constant communication with His Father.

Church leaders, pastors or preachers, call them what we want will have a great deal to answer for at the Judgment Seat. What was in their hearts, why did they lead the way they did. Were they a man after Gods own heart like David?

If ever you want to take some time use You tube to see a sermon by Jim Cymbala, pastor of the Brooklyn Tabernacle in NYC.
It's titled "My House Shall Be Called a House of Prayer". Jim Cymbala is one of those called by God who never attended a bible school or seminary. It's a truly Spirit led church in the inner-city and home to the Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir.

[S F Lord]

Correction on my suggestion to view Jim Cymbala's sermon. It's a Google video, it's not
on You Tube. So just Google it and you'll find it.

[Caretaker]

Mar 25, 2009 7:29:36 GMT -6 S F Lord said:

It is telling, however, that what these men have in common is that they spend large amounts of time in prayer- for their congregations and for their sermons.

That statement is the KEY, the most important thing that a Pastor can do is to be in PRAYER.

Jesus is our best example of a Pastor, Shepard. Throughout the New Testament be was constantly in prayer to His Father. He was not studying the Old Testament writings while He was in the Synagogue, He was teaching, preaching giving a sermon if you will. But it was preceded by prayer and constant communication with His Father.

Church leaders, pastors or preachers, call them what we want will have a great deal to answer for at the Judgment Seat. What was in their hearts, why did they lead the way they did. Were they a man after Gods own heart like David?

If ever you want to take some time use You tube to see a sermon by Jim Cymbala, pastor of the Brooklyn Tabernacle in NYC.
It's titled "My House Shall Be Called a House of Prayer". Jim Cymbala is one of those called by God who never attended a bible school or seminary. It's a truly Spirit led church in the inner-city and home to the Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir.

Thank you so much for sharing, and am listening to it now.

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5015435750261664501

Mark 11:
15: And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;
16: And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.
17: And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Isaiah 56:
7: Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.


Jer. 7:
11: Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the LORD.


Whenever Jesus said, "It is written", He quoted, revealed, taught from the Old Testament and its truth revealed in Him.

[Caretaker]

There is much good in the teaching which supports 1 Thess. 5, and the admonition for the Believer to "pray without ceasing".

A concern has been raised in regards to Cymbala's teaching and ties to certain Charismatic precepts, in a review of "Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire":

www.svchapel.org/resources/articles/22-contemporary-issues/18-a-biblical-screening-of-jim-cymbalas-book-fresh-wind-fresh-fire

Surprised by the endorsement of a charismatic minister by the IFCA I quickly ordered the book hoping to discover why. (For evidence of Cymbala’s charismatic associations see Charisma Magazine, December 1998, which identifies him as a keynote speaker for a conference on Pentecostal Prophecy and Power in Springfield, Missouri on March 8-10, 1999). As promised there was much to commend: Cymbala, pastor of the huge Brooklyn Tabernacle, best known for its choir, places great emphasis on prayer, one of the truly missing commodities in our lives and churches today. He is not deceived by the gimmicks of the church growth movement. He is dismayed at Christian commercialism, especially in the area of music. He is bothered by the extreme forms of the Spiritual Warfare movement, although he does not completely divorce himself from it. He believes that God is willing and able to do a great work in the lives of His people. These are refreshing and needed admonishments.

There are concerns:

"The absent element is what is expressed in the final sentence of the prayer recorded in Acts 4, ‘Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders’ (verse 30). What gains unbelievers’ attention and stirs the heart is seeing the gospel expressed in power. It takes more than academic rigor to win the world for Christ. Correct doctrine alone isn’t enough. Proclamation and teaching aren’t enough. God must be invited to ‘confirm the word with signs following’ (see Hebrews 2:4). In other words, the gospel must be preached with the involvement of the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven. The apostles prayed for God to do supernatural things. . ." (p.138).

"It is a spontaneous, Spirit-inspired, empowered presentation of the gospel. Power evangelism is preceded and undergirded by demonstrations of God’s presence, and frequently results in groups of people being saved. Signs and wonders do not save, only Jesus and his substitutionary work on the cross saves. Through these encounters people experience the presence and power of God. Usually this takes the form of words of knowledge (such as were given to me about the man on the plane), healing, prophecy, and deliverance from evil spirits. In power evangelism, resistance to the gospel is overcome by the demonstration of God’s power, and receptivity to Christ’s claims is usually very high" (Power Evangelism, p. 78,79).

[S F Lord]

Caretaker, in regards to the review of Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire and the link you provided. Have you ever read that book?

[Keith]

Mar 25, 2009 8:26:16 GMT -6 Caretaker said:

Usually this takes the form of words of knowledge (such as were given to me about the man on the plane), healing, prophecy...

Sorry, didn't read the whole thing, but that caught my eye.

'Words of knowledge' is akin to divination, and the Bible is a completed work (Revelation 22:18), so no need today for prophecying. Both are spoken against:

"There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee." (Deuteronomy 18:10-12)

[Caretaker]

Mar 25, 2009 9:49:59 GMT -6 S F Lord said:

Caretaker, in regards to the review of Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire and the link you provided. Have you ever read that book?

No I have not had the opportunity to read the book. This is why I state that it is one opinion and subsequent concern expressed, and not my opinion.

Here are excerpts online:

books.google.com/books?id=7CH5z7ciyNkC&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=Jim+Cymbala+%2B+signs+and+won

One must be Berean and search the scriptures daily to see if this be so(Acts 17).

There is a concern if a ministry is teaching a reliance on signs and wonders, as confirmation from God. If the pastor, much like a Joel Osteen is not grounded in solid Theology they run the risk of leading the flock astray, or making them vulnerable to deception.

Extreme examples would be a Benny Hinn, a Todd Bentley, or the Toronto Blessing, the Brownsville Revival, etc., with a clambering after signs and wonders.

Hebrews 11:
1: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I cannot say whether Jim Cymbala is solid and a great man of God, or whether there is reason for concern. One must analyze the fruit and align what is taught with the Word of God, which is absolute Truth.

2 Tim. 3:
16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

God answers prayer and He moves in the hearts and lives of His children, according to His Will.

Gal. 5:
22: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23: Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24: And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25: If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26: Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

[S F Lord]

I cannot say whether Jim Cymbala is solid and a great man of God, or whether there is reason for concern. One must analyze the fruit and align what is taught with the Word of God, which is absolute Truth.

I have read 3 of Cymbalas books over the past 6 months. I have had the opportunity to visit the Brooklyn Tabernacle for 2 or 3 afternoon services. His books are full of testimony to Gods provision both in he and his wifes lives and in the countless others whose stories are told.

It, as a church, has had a great impact on the city and its surroundings.

We must be very careful to not lump the Holy Spirits movement on people with every crazy, un-biblical thing that is out there.
Churches today are absolutely paronaid about even considering or asking the Holy Spirit to speak to a pastors heart while he is preaching to perhaps change the order of service that is printed in the bulletin that the usher handed you on your way into the sanctuary.

[Caretaker]

Mar 25, 2009 12:30:19 GMT -6 S F Lord said:

I cannot say whether Jim Cymbala is solid and a great man of God, or whether there is reason for concern. One must analyze the fruit and align what is taught with the Word of God, which is absolute Truth.

I have read 3 of Cymbalas books over the past 6 months. I have had the opportunity to visit the Brooklyn Tabernacle for 2 or 3 afternoon services. His books are full of testimony to Gods provision both in he and his wifes lives and in the countless others whose stories are told.

It, as a church, has had a great impact on the city and its surroundings.

We must be very careful to not lump the Holy Spirits movement on people with every crazy, un-biblical thing that is out there.
Churches today are absolutely paronaid about even considering or asking the Holy Spirit to speak to a pastors heart while he is preaching to perhaps change the order of service that is printed in the bulletin that the usher handed you on your way into the sanctuary.

A neat opportunity for you.

Jim Cymbala 3 part interview on Youtube: