Reading from Methodist church-any wrong in it?

[veterinarian]

I attend a United Methodist church, the Saturday evening service. Our Saturday service is always less formal than the Sunday morning service, but the church bulletin has the Sunday morning service, including any special litanies (responsive readings where the pastor says one thing and then the listeners read a written response). This Saturday was no different, but the litany for Sunday made me feel uncomfortable. I would like to hear what others have to say about this, so I have reproduced it word for word.



Litany of the Economy of Life

(A responsive reading)

Let us become, by God’s grace, the faithful communion of saints that proclaims the Gospel of love and justice and jubilee for the whole earth.

The sacred gift of life that is the free gift of God’s grace is for all and for all time.

Who has the right to participate in the economy and society?

God’s gifts are for the use of all to live.

Can everything and everyone’s labor be owned and traded for a price in the market?

Earth and all life have their origins in God and belong to God. They cannot be commoditized.

Can we live in an economy that promotes survival of the fittest and cares not for survival of the weak?

The Biblical vision is for the care of the poor and the vulnerable.

Can we accept discrimination and exclusion and unequal distribution of wealth and power?

These things violate the commandment to love God and neighbor.

How do we understand the fullness of life offered by Jesus?

It is having food, clothing, work, and health; but also belonging and caring, self-realization, and experience and celebrating community.

(All Uniting)

We practice an economy of life-an economy of solidarity and sharing. God’s economy is an economy of the whole earth community.



As I type this, it sounds good to me. But I just get little “prickly” feelings about the ideas overall--as if the ideas are good, but the direction they are leading is wrong. Please assist me in this. I like my pastor but I just can’t follow his explanations at times; I am a logical person and many times I have problems grasping certain explanations.

[Keith]

I've a problem with litanies to begin with. They're used for every subject under the sun by the Catholic Church. Here's a sample[/url]. This isn't prayer 'from the heart', this is mere recitation, first by the preacher then by the congregation.

"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." (Matthew 6:7)

Sorry, I didn't even see a need to get into the subject matter of the litany Donna.

[Caretaker]

Like most of those founded in Roman Catholicism and embracing the liturgical traditions, the UMC leadership and seminaries have become very liberal, affirming and ecumenical. While there are many conservative believers within the local congregations, the upper leadership and the seminary professors are leading away from sound Biblical principles.

An interesting article:

www.goodnewsmag.org/magazine/JulyAugust/ja09legacyofliberalism.htm

Tenets of theological liberalism
During the first third of the 20th century, liberalism clashed head-on with evangelicalism. We see why when we consider the basic tenets of liberal faith:

1. God’s character is one of pure benevolence—without wrath. All persons are his children, and sin separates no one from his love.

2. There is a divine spark in every man and woman. All persons, therefore, are good at heart and need only encouragement and nurturing to allow their natural goodness to express itself.

3. Jesus Christ is Savior only in the sense that he is our perfect teacher and example. He was not divine in any unique sense. He was not born of a virgin, did not work miracles, and did not rise from the dead.

4. Just as Christ differs from other men only comparatively, not absolutely, neither does Christianity differ from other religions. It is just most prevalent among the world religions, all of which stem from the same basic source. Thus, missions should not aim to convert, but rather to promote a cross-fertilization of ideas for mutual enrichment.

5. The Bible is not a divine record of revelation, but a human record of the religious experiences of a nation. Thus few doctrinal statements or creeds are essential to Christianity. The only things unchanging about the Christian message are its moral and ethical teachings.

Impact on American Christianity
Theological liberalism was euphoric early in this century, for it believed it was riding the new intellectual wave of the future—and it was. It believed it could rid the Christian Church of its restrictive, outdated worldview and help prepare it for a new, golden era.

So as a strategy by well-meaning churchmen, liberalism set out to attract people to Christianity by accommodating the Gospel to the wisdom and worldview of secular, scientific “modern man.” It was determined to preserve and strengthen Christianity. Unfortunately, the impact was just the opposite as liberalism devastated the vitality of the Christian Church in America.

J.I. Packer, contemporary theologian and author, summarized liberalism’s disastrous impact upon evangelical faith, saying “Liberalism swept away entirely the gospel of the supernatural redemption of sinners…. It reduced grace to nature, divine revelation to human reflection, faith in Christ to following his example, and receiving new life to turning over a new leaf.”

Liberalism was determined to rid Christianity of its supernatural elements (miracles, the Resurrection, etc.) which just might cause a thoughtful enquirer embarrassment. And it succeeded.

What concerns me about all this is how much it sounds like modern day theology. Students at our denominational colleges and seminaries often report encountering these same negations in their classes. And several years ago our denominational journal ran an article in which the author/theologian recommended we forget the troublesome aspects of Christianity such as Jesus’ miracles, deity, and resurrection. The author suggested we focus only on the ethical teachings of Christianity, for they are what is most important. Alas, the present generation stands on the shoulders of the previous one.

[Murph]

What I read in that responsive reading sounded like a path to socialism and not to the Kingdom.

Lord told us to take care of the poor and widows but He also told us ...

"lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal...

For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." Matthew 6:20-21

It almost sounds like in that reading earthly things are valued more than the Lord and things in Heaven...

I like the readings where the responses are Bible verses...and the Psalms which are beautiful to read aloud back to the Lord.

But that responsive reading sounds empty and hollow...earthly. Like the world crept into the church on little demon's feet carrying that one in it's teeth.

[Murph]

I think you got good radar Donna...

heard a pastor say once, "Baptist are just Methodist with too much energy"...thought that was a pretty good description myself.

[Keith]

Sept 14, 2009 15:51:41 GMT -6 veterinarian said:

I just get little “prickly” feelings...

Sept 15, 2009 7:31:41 GMT -6 Murph said:

I think you got good radar Donna...

Amen! There's a reason you got those 'prickly' feelings sister: The Spirit was telling you it wasn't right.

[DB]

You described yourself as a "logical person" Vet. and from what I read I believe you have a "squar head" on your shoulders ..

Let me fire a shot if I may in the direction of "logic"..

Our souls would be lost for ever if it were not for the WORD OF GOD, the WORD OF GOD ( the Holy Bible) tells us of God our creator, the creation of the universe, sin, death, the coming of the Lamb of God, His shed blood, Salvation, the church, the list goes on and on....

It does not take a rocket scientist to apply just a little logic that, since our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is rooted in HIS WORD - then our faith, hope, edification, knowledge, and all aspects of the Christian life and walk are found in the WORD OF GOD...

In this "litany", I see and read zero scriptures. No wonder you get those "pricklies". It is a wonderful thing to know that the Holy Ghost gets our attention!! Listen to Him Vet.

Less WORD = more world.
Less BIBLE = more ecumenism.
Less Scriptures = weaker faith.


Satan has a grip within the modern church and its system that is leading multitudes AWAY from God's word and toward a great big "feel good" crowd that is spearheaded by works salvation and a coming one world religion that envelopes every walk of life and belief into one false church that is headed for Hell. When the individual freedom of dependency in and of the Holy Ghost is hindered then there is room for Satan to work.

If there is one thing on this earth now that is most hated, feared, and targeted for eradication it is the blessed WORD OF GOD. Watch out for it's absence or substitution!!

[veterinarian]

Sept 15, 2009 8:38:11 GMT -6 DB said:

Our souls would be lost for ever if it were not for the WORD OF GOD, the WORD OF GOD ( the Holy Bible) tells us of God our creator, the creation of the universe, sin, death, the coming of the Lamb of God, His shed blood, Salvation, the church, the list goes on and on....

It does not take a rocket scientist to apply just a little logic that, since our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is rooted in HIS WORD - then our faith, hope, edification, knowledge, and all aspects of the Christian life and walk are found in the WORD OF GOD...

Now I understand what you say here. I can't follow my pastor's reasoning; I've tried on several occasions with somewhat negative results.

You know, I may just have a bit of ADD or something after all--Duck's comment about "Baptist are just Methodist with too much energy" fits me pretty good. I grew up a Baptist, and all these Methodist are a bit too laid back for me.

Seriously, thank you all for your replies. I admit that I have never thought very much of litanies because I thought it was just flapping your lips. I just ignored them. I realize now that there is much more at stake.