Question on John 20:8-9

[Murph]

"Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed. For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead." John 20:8-9

I am really enjoying studying for this SS lesson and have another question.

Passage says John "saw and believed." But the next verse says "they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead."

What did John believe, and if he believed that Jesus had risen...how did he not know the scripture that said Jesus would rise again?

Thanks for answering the questions.

[Bud]

Could it be that they believed what Mary had told them, that someone had taken his body from the sepulchre?Because they just turned around and went home.

[Murph]

The passages says to me that Peter went into the tomb and saw or observed the buriel clothes, but that John went in and saw...as in he understood what he was seeing...the buriel clothes and the empty tomb.

In other words John believed the Lord had risen...

But it could be what you are saying Bud. That would explain why they hadn't connected the empty tomb with the prophecy that Jesus would rise from the dead.

[Bud]

I'm not sure they believed until He appeared to them that night in the upper room.Jesus had been telling them for weeks of his cruxification and resurrection and they didn't believe.He had even given them the Olivet discourse and in detail about His 2nd coming.I think they just saw that He was gone and were probably trying to piece everything together.

[Bud]

Read chapt 24 of Luke.That might shed some light on it.

[Murph]

Was just reading Luke 24...remembered that passage and went to see,

Here is what it says...

"And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day..." vs. 44-46.

[Bud]

verses 22-24 helps to understand their thinking

[Murph]

I think John understood, when he saw the buriel clothes laying as if the Lord had just gotten up out of them and the napkin folded and laying to the side...that something special had happened. If someone had come to remove the body...why leave the buriel clothes and take the time to fold the napkin and lay it to the side?

[Bud]

Yes your right and I believe there were many things going through his mind and he was trying to sort it out.He knew the body was gone but the rest I think was still very confusing until he saw Him that night.

[Bud]

Remember as of that time, according to John's account,He hadn't appeared to Mary and He appeared to her first so they were still concerned about the disappearance of the body.He appeared to her after Peter and John left according to John's account.

[Murph]

I think John believed the Lord had risen but didn't as yet understand all the ramifications of the resurrection.

[Deleted]

Remember that Jesus told them that they would understand these things in the near future:

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father" (John 16:12-16).

It was not really until the day of Pentecost that Peter became the teacher of biblical truth - until then (after the death of Christ) he, along with the other apostles and disciples were timidly holding out in the upper room.

They knew that Jesus was alive . . . but they did not understand how or why. They were some confoozed peoples.

[Murph]

thanks Bud and Virgil...lots to think about...

[Keith]

Apr 20, 2011 15:43:30 GMT -6 Murph said:

Passage says John "saw and believed." ...

What did John believe...

When he saw the burial cloth in the condition it was in, he believed Jesus had risen. Again, we must consult Jewish tradition and their burial practices concerning the preparation of a body...

"Then, after Joseph and the women had gone, Nicodemus and his helpers came (you would want helpers if you were carrying 75 pounds of spices and a bunch of cloth) and they gave Jesus a more formal burial, but one that did not anticipate his resurrection.

What Nicodemus did is why, when Peter and another disciple ran to the tomb, they saw the othonion (John 20:5), the mummy-like linen grave wrappings that had been around Jesus but were then empty."

www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=369

When a body is prepared in that fashon, all those spices embedded in the cloth make it like a hard cocoon. When he entered the chamber and saw the cocoon intact with no body inside it he knew immediately the body had miraculously risen directly through the cloth.

"Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury." (John 19:40)

In other words, it was like stiff mummy wrappings with no body inside. There was no excuse to be made. They knew exactly what had happened!

[Murph]

I greatly enjoyed reading that article Keith. Thanks for posting it.