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Post by Keith on Oct 18, 2011 13:36:30 GMT -6
Scaring people into religionI just came back from my weekly shopping trip. Both of my girls with me, dolled up in handmade dresses their grandmother made for them, strolled up to the counter for their free cookie. The woman behind the counter handed them their cookie and cooed over their attire. She asked us our plans for Halloween.. The usual, I told her.. pumpkin carving, trick or treating, etc.. Then she told me about her plans.... "We are planning a haunted house at our church... well, not exactly.. it will be the stages of hell, and we will have 4 players. Two will have accepted Jesus Christ into their hearts and two will not, and burn in hell for eternity.. " (Yes, these were her exact words, and my kids are in earshot.) "I can give you some information if you are interested." "No" I replied, "Thats a little much for me." "Well, there will be scenes that we advise small children not see. But mostly, I am excited about all the souls that will be saved." "Really? Seems like you shouldn't have to scare someone into your beliefs.. if you have a good message it should sell on its own.. you shouldn't have to scare someone into religion." "Well," she continued, "People don't want reality.. this is reality.. people just want everything sugar-coated." The conversation went on for a little, until it just made me so uncomfortable that I had to leave. However, it left me wondering... Is it appropriate for her to be telling me this stuff? I mean, do her beliefs represent that specific grocery store chain?? Second, what makes people think its appropriate to scare people into their beliefs? Shouldn't a good message be able to sell on its own? Wouldn't you rather emphasize the good rather than the bad?? What are your thoughts? hallen94.newsvine.com/_news/2011/10/16/8354757-scaring-people-into-religion-your-thoughts
The Lord never attempted to 'talk someone into' salvation, even though 2 Corinthians 5:11 seems to imply that: "Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences." (2 Corinthians 5:11)The context of persuasion in this instance is necessitated by our (born-again Christians) awareness of the "terror of the Lord". Part of the evangelism process can be stating God's use of Divine wrath in light of someone's lack of spiritual conviction. Another use of the term 'persuasion' (Greek 3982 - "peitho") would be 'trust or assurance': "And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me." (Hebrews 2:13) or, "And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him." (1 John 3:19)Therefore, 'persuasion' in this context is not our attempt to 'talk someone into' salvation, but to either: - Offer the assurance of salvation and to trust in it, or, considering we're born lost,
- To literally 'scare the Hell out of them', or more appropriately 'scare them out of Hell' by stating what God can do if they don't receive Him.
If, after hearing, one is still not receptive to The Word, we should move on: “And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.” (Luke 9:5)-Keith
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2011 13:58:04 GMT -6
I can't say that this is the appropriate method to use, it certainly cannot come close to presenting the true horrors of hell . . . the maggots, the blisters, the never-ending screaming and the utter darkness. Hell is a horrible place, to be sure, but halloween caricatures of the domain may actually have the undesired result of making some children think, if this is all it is, I can handle it.
As to using fear in the message, . . . there is hardly a way to truly escape it. If a loving pastor shedding tears, presents the reality of hell in a sermon, the unsaved ought to fear the reality that this will be their destination should they persist in rejecting the Saviour.
Jude, after all, gives us the clearest and most direct response to the question . . .
"And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh" (Jude 1:22-23).
If a preacher is not careful in his delivery, he can actually make it sound like this is where he "hopes" that those that disagree with him go . . . and this only further isolates the people from understanding the great love of God that provided a wonderful alternative to an eternity of being separated from the source of all love . . . and comfort.
I believe that Jude is telling us that most will come to Christ once the clear facts of salvation are presented to them . . . compassionately. The rest, well, they need to be told that there is a hell to shun and a heaven to gain. After all, hell was only truly created for the devil and his angels . . . not for man.
Man only goes there because he chooses it.
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Post by Keith on Oct 18, 2011 15:23:26 GMT -6
A lady on Facebook said of the tactic used by the church mentioned in the article: This is nothing but a cleaned up version of Halloween. I agree. It's not something a church should do. But In regards to what I wrote: A two-fold message of the Gospel should be used in evangelism: Either the blessings of Heaven, or the horrors of Hell.
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Murph
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Post by Murph on Oct 18, 2011 15:25:47 GMT -6
To present Heaven and not tell about Hell is a lie...
To present Hell and not tell about Heaven is also a lie...
To rely on yourself to tell about either one is a mistake...
To take a deep breath and rely on the Holy Spirit...then you would be hittin' on something...
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Post by Keith on Oct 18, 2011 15:27:27 GMT -6
Amen Marilyn!
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Murph
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Post by Murph on Oct 18, 2011 15:27:31 GMT -6
Liberty University does what they call "Scare Mare"...along the same lines as what is described in the article you posted...
I honestly don't know if I agree or disagree with the whole Halloween thing. I do know it personally makes me uncomfortable so I try to stay away from discussions about it.
but not from discussions about Hell...and never about Heaven.
So many people today don't want to hear about Hell and refuse to believe it exist.
Same as with the Blood...of the Lord. Call ours a "slaughterhouse religion."
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Post by S F Lord on Oct 18, 2011 15:49:29 GMT -6
I remember a story I read years back. It was part of a book written by a Ph.d from Dallas Theo. Seminary.
He was on an airplane back to Dallas. He was sitting next to a 20 + year old girl. For the past 90 minutes they had been discussing religion. She was an admitted 'non-believer".
The preacher was so frustrated, here he was a professor at Dallas, learned in both the OT & NT. He could not convince her that Jesus blood was shed for both him and her.
The announcement came over the speaker, a 30 minute delay in landing.
He felt he had another chance. He relates in the story that after feeling so much frustration he prayed that the Lord would give him the words to make a breakthrough with this girl.
10 minutes into the 30 minute delay, he looked at the girl and quietly said:
"The truth of the matter is this, we are all sinners in need of a Savior"
Tears welled in her eyes, silence then the response: "I know, I know"
She prayed with the man and excepted the Lord.
__________________________
The simplicity of words with the power of the Holy Spirit !!!
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Murph
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Post by Murph on Oct 18, 2011 15:57:04 GMT -6
simplicity and economy...
Amen
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Post by Keith on Oct 18, 2011 16:36:03 GMT -6
10 minutes into the 30 minute delay, he looked at the girl and quietly said: "The truth of the matter is this, we are all sinners in need of a Savior" Tears welled in her eyes, silence then the response: "I know, I know" She prayed with the man and excepted the Lord. That, dear brother is the Holy Spirit doing His work! I love to be around when that happens! |
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Post by S F Lord on Oct 18, 2011 16:55:33 GMT -6
That, dear brother is the Holy Spirit doing His work! I love to be around when that happens! It stikes a nerve with me in regards to how church folks perceive the working of the Holy Spirit. In my walk I've seen the extremes, then the deadness. But to feel the sweet spririt working in people to cause brokeness, tears and repentance and like you've said Keith, "I love to be around when that happens." I fear that to many have been taught from the pulpit that that Holy Spirit might not be something to fill you again with. People must ask for a new blessing, a new infilling. If preaching, Sunday School, good music, programs, cake sales, and more programs, small groups etc. are the only way to go without seeking the Holy Spirit to fan the flames of revival then why don't we see the throngs coming to salvation like we see in the Book of Acts where that same Holy Spirit was introduced.? |
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Post by Keith on Oct 19, 2011 8:03:27 GMT -6
It stikes a nerve with me in regards to how church folks perceive the working of the Holy Spirit. Amen Bob, to me He is misunderstood in His work, even though He is as much God as the Father and the Son. Here's some personal notes I have on Him: The Holy Spirit is God: "But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? While it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God." (Acts 5:3-4)---------- The Holy Spirit's involvement in Jesus' resurrection: "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." (Romans 8:11)---------- The Holy Spirit is omniscient, which is ascribed only to Divinity: "But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God." (1 Corinthians 2:10)
"For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God." (1 Corinthians 2:11)---------- And, the Holy Spirit is omnipresent: “Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me." (Psalms 139:7-10) |
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Murph
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Post by Murph on Oct 19, 2011 10:53:26 GMT -6
Had a professor in college...and one day he told us to take out 3 sheets of paper. He gave us 5 minutes and told us on the first piece of paper to write down everything we knew about Jesus...
We all filled up both sides of the paper.
then he gave us 5 more minutes and told us to write down everything we knew about God the Father. At the end of 5 minutes most people had filled up at least one side of the paper.
then he gave us 5 more minutes and told us to write down everything we knew about the Holy Spirit...
Very few people even filled up one half of a page...
one of the things I think is interesting about the Holy Spirit of God is that He never speaks of Himself but only points to Jesus and testifies of Him...
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me" John 15:26
The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit of God and is God...We are told to baptise in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" Matthew 28:19
That is one of the most incicious false doctrines taught in churches today...
There is only one God...not 3. God the Father...His Word, and His Spirit...one God. Not 3.
One! A living One!
Amen
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Murph
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Post by Murph on Oct 19, 2011 10:55:18 GMT -6
How many of this world's gods did what our God did?
He came down to earth from Heaven and gave His life for us?
Ginniney Crickets! I still find that so remarkable!...
"...Even while we were yet sinners...Christ died for us." Romans 5:8
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Post by Keith on Oct 19, 2011 12:58:12 GMT -6
Above all powers, above all kings Above all nature and all created things Above all wisdom and all the ways of man You were here before the world began Above all kingdoms, above all thrones Above all wonders the world has ever known Above all wealth and treasures of the earth There's no way to measure what you're worth Crucified Laid behind a stone You lived to die Rejected and alone Like a rose Trampled on the ground You took the fall And thought of me Above all Above all powers, above all kings Above all nature and all created things Above all wisdom and all the ways of man You were here before the world began Above all kingdoms, above all thrones Above all wonders the world has ever known Above all wealth and treasures of the earth There's no way to measure what you're worth Crucified Laid behind a stone You lived to die Rejected and alone Like a rose Trampled on the ground You took the fall And thought of me Above all Crucified Laid behind a stone You lived to die Rejected and alone Like a rose Trampled on the ground You took the fall And thought of me Above all Like a rose Trampled on the ground You took the fall And thought of me Above all |
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Murph
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Post by Murph on Oct 19, 2011 14:55:37 GMT -6
beautiful...
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Post by Keith on Oct 19, 2011 15:03:41 GMT -6
One of my all time favorites!
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