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Post by Caretaker on Nov 3, 2011 11:43:45 GMT -6
2 Cor. 11: 14 And no marvel; for satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Joseph Smith was visited by angels and even God the Father and God the Son, but it was demonic deception. This was the foundation of the Latter Day Saints. Ellen G. White was shown visions of Heaven by the angel Gabriel, which led to the false teachings of the Seventh Day Adventists. There are demonic Marian appearances which have deceived the Roman Catholic Church. Demonic visions and dreams of the RCC nun, Catherine Emmerich were the impetus behind the Delorus Passion of the Christ, which Mel Gibson used in his movie. There is God and there is the god of this world, who has tremendous power for deception. Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 1 Timothy 4:1 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. Matthew 24:11 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew 24:24 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 2 Corinthians 11:13-14 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2Peter 2:1 |
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Post by Caretaker on Nov 3, 2011 11:46:35 GMT -6
Jeremiah 23:25 - 32 (NLT)
“I have heard these prophets say, ‘Listen to the dream I had from God last night.’ And then they proceed to tell lies in my name. How long will this go on? If they are prophets, they are prophets of deceit, inventing everything they say. By telling these false dreams, they are trying to get my people to forget me, just as their ancestors did by worshiping the idols of Baal.
“Let these false prophets tell their dreams, but let my true messengers faithfully proclaim my every word.
There is a difference between straw and grain!
Does not my word burn like fire?” says the LORD. “Is it not like a mighty hammer that smashes a rock to pieces?
“Therefore,” says the LORD, “I am against these prophets who steal messages from each other and claim they are from me. I am against these smooth-tongued prophets who say, ‘This prophecy is from the LORD!’ I am against these false prophets. Their imaginary dreams are flagrant lies that lead my people into sin. I did not send or appoint them, and they have no message at all for my people. I, the LORD have spoken!
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Jeremiah 23:33 - 40 (NLT)
“Suppose one of the people or one of the prophets or priests asks you, ‘What prophecy has the LORD burdened you with now?’ You must reply, ‘You are the burden! The LORD says he will abandon you!’
“If any prophet, priest, or anyone else says, ‘I have a prophecy from the LORD,’ I will punish that person along with his entire family. You should keep asking each other, ‘What is the LORD’s answer?’ or ‘What is the LORD saying?’ But stop using this phrase, ‘prophecy from the LORD.’ For people are using it to give authority to their own ideas, turning upside down the words of our God, the living God, the LORD of Heaven’s Armies.
“This is what you should say to the prophets: ‘What is the LORD’s answer?’ or ‘What is the LORD saying?’ But suppose they respond, ‘This is a prophecy from the LORD!’ Then you should say, ‘This is what the LORD says: Because you have used this phrase, “prophecy from the LORD,” even though I warned you not to use it, I will forget you completely. I will expel you from my presence, along with this city that I gave to you and your ancestors. And I will make you an object of ridicule, and your name will be infamous throughout the ages.’”
God exposes the sins of the false prophets (Jer. 23:9-40)
What God said, as recorded in Jeremiah 14:14, summarizes this entire section: “The prophets prophesy lies in My name. I have not sent them, commanded them, nor spoken to them; they prophesy to you a false vision, divination, a worthless thing, and the deceit of their heart” (nkjv). Jeremiah focused on three areas in their lives that were especially abhorrent.
Their disgraceful conduct (vv. 9-15).
True prophets know how serious it is to be called by God to declare His Word, and they accept the responsibility with fear and trembling. When they see self-styled prophets living like sinners, it grieves them. No wonder Jeremiah had a broken heart and trembled like a drunken man! He realized what the false prophets were doing to the people and the land, and it made him sick. “Horror [indignation]7-7 hath taken hold upon me because of the wicked that forsake Thy Law” (Ps. 119:53).
The false prophets were committing adultery and thronging the houses of prostitution (Jer. 5:7). Then they would go to the temple and pretend to worship Jehovah (23:11), turning God’s house into a den of thieves (7:9-11). But the word “adultery” also includes their worship of idols, turning from the true God (to whom Israel was “married”) and being unfaithful to their covenant promises.
The false prophets had led the Northern Kingdom of Israel astray (23:13), and now they were leading the Southern Kingdom of Judah astray (v. 14). Baal was the Canaanite rain god to whom the Jews were prone to turn for help in times of drought (1 Kings 17-18), and his worship included “sacred prostitution.” Jerusalem was becoming like Sodom and Gomorrah—cities so wicked God had to destroy them (Jer. 20:16; Gen. 18-19).
The land was suffering a severe drought (Jer. 23:10; see chap. 14) because the false prophets led the people to violate the terms of their covenant with God. The Lord promised to send the early and latter rains if they obeyed Him (Deut. 11:10-15; 28:12), but He also warned them that He would make the heavens brass and the earth iron if they disobeyed Him (11:16-17; 28:23-24). “Because of the curse the land lies parched” (Jer. 23:10, niv). But the sinners refused to escape, even though God had promised to judge them in due time (vv. 12, 15).
Whenever a nation needs healing, it’s usually because God’s people aren’t obeying and serving Him as they should. We like to blame dishonest politicians and various purveyors of pleasure for a nation’s decline in morality, but God blames His own people. “If My people, which are called by My name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land” (2 Chron. 7:14).
Their dishonest message (vv. 16-32).
To begin with, the false prophets offered the people a false hope (Jer. 23:16-20). “The Lord says: You will have peace …. No harm will come to you” (v. 17, niv; see 6:13-15; 8:10-12). Of course, this was a popular message, and the frightened people grabbed it and held on to it. But the false prophets hadn’t heard that message in God’s council; they made it up out of their own hearts. Instead of peace, a storm was brewing from the Lord (23:20). God was about to vent His holy anger on His sinful people, and when they finally understood His purposes, it would be too late to stop the whirlwind.
Not only did the false prophets give the people a false hope, but they also ministered under a false authority (23:21-24). God hadn’t spoken to them, yet they prophesied. God hadn’t called them, yet they ran with their message. If they were truly prophets from God, they would have lived godly lives and encouraged the people to turn from their wickedness. Instead, they taught a popular “theology” that made it convenient for people to be religious and still live in sin.
Jehovah wasn’t a local deity like the pagan idols, but a transcendent God who reigns above all things and fills heaven and earth (vv. 23-24). Nor was He blind like the idols (Ps. 115:5), unable to see the sins of the people. “Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him?” (Jer. 23:24) Because they listened to the false prophets, the people believed lies about God, and what we believe about God determines how we live.
Finally, the false prophets were speaking under a false inspiration (vv. 25-32). They depended on dreams and delusions of the mind, and they even plagiarized messages from one another! Compared to the nourishing wheat of the Word, their messages were only straw; you couldn’t eat it, build with it, or even be warmed by it.
The message of the true prophet is like a hammer that can tear down and build up (see 1:10) and even break the hardest rocks (23:29). The Word is like fire that consumes waste and purifies whatever it touches. Jeremiah had the Word burning in his heart (20:9; see Luke 24:32) and on his lips (Jer. 5:14). He was God’s assayer, using the fire of the Word to test the lives of the people (6:27).
There are false prophets and teachers in our world today (2 Peter 2:1; 1 John 4:1-6), people who claim to know God’s will because of their dreams, their study of astrology, or their special “spiritual” gifts. Some of them have invaded the church (Jude 3-4). Whatever anyone says who claims to be speaking for the Lord must be tested by the Word of God. “To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them” (Isa. 8:20).
Their disrespectful attitude (vv. 33-40).
The key Hebrew word in this section is massa, which means “a burden.” Jeremiah used it to refer to bearing burdens on the Sabbath (Jer. 17:21-27), but in this context it means the burden of the message that the Lord places on His prophets (Nahum 1:1; Hab. 1:1; Mal. 1:1). For this reason, some scholars translate it “oracle,” but “burden” is perfectly acceptable (see the niv and nasb, both of which put “burden” in the margin).
God cautioned Jeremiah not to encourage the careless attitude of the priests, people, and false prophets when they asked him, “What is the burden of the Lord?” The phrase “burden of the Lord” was almost a cliche; it was used to poke fun at God’s true prophet. (The phrase “born again” often gets the same kind of treatment.)
Why should the false prophets ask for an oracle from the Lord when Jeremiah had already told them what God wanted them to hear? If they hadn’t obeyed what God already commanded, why should He tell them more? Their attitude toward God’s message was careless and disrespectful; they weren’t taking seriously God’s message or God’s messenger. The false prophets had distorted the truth to make it mean what they wanted it to mean, and yet they called their messages the “oracles of the Lord.”
Jeremiah was to reply, “You are the burden!” (v. 33, niv margin) The Living Bible catches the spirit of the passage:
When one of the people or one of their “prophets” or priests asks you, “Well, Jeremiah, what is the sad news from the Lord today?” you shall reply, “What sad news? You are the sad news, for the Lord has cast you away!” (Jer. 23:33)
A worldly church puts an emphasis on “fun” and “entertainment” and forgets about tears. We now have “Christian comedians” who generate laughter for thirty minutes and then tack on the Gospel and give an invitation. While there’s a proper place for humor in the Christian life, the church today needs to hear the words of James: “Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up” (James 4:9-10, nkjv). The church isn’t taking God’s Word seriously at an hour when the world is in serious trouble.
(Wiersbe)
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Post by Keith on Nov 3, 2011 12:48:59 GMT -6
Good stuff brother Drew!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2011 13:07:39 GMT -6
Yes it is. Better bring a knife and a fork to this meat dinner.
The sad thing is that the average person . . . including those that know the Lord . . . are Bible illiterate, and without a clue, so that if something has a "spiritual" quality to it - they suck it up, and forget to use their God-given discernment to judge whether it be true or not.
One reason some of the churches are in the mess they are.
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Murph
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Post by Murph on Nov 3, 2011 13:16:03 GMT -6
Ain't dat da truff and so sad. A very nice lady was working next to me at a dinner serving...at a meeting for several churches in our association.
She said she was reading "the Shack" and thought the book was so good. I stated in on the things that weren't Biblical and she was very upset. She said she asked her husband if the book was OK and he said it was. He is a Baptist Preechar...
I would say things are getting very scary...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2011 13:26:10 GMT -6
it's the old, "if it feels good, go fer it!", or if it makes sense to my human reasoning (though it is tainted by Adam's sin), go ahead and believe it.
The problem is that Paul tells us that things are to be understood by the Spirit, and not by our natural self - so, trouble . . . and a perverted church led by an ignorant pastor that tells it is ok to suck up the world's truth.
Should of told her to add just a pinch of dog waste to her fine brownie mix . . . and enjoy, after all, it is just a "little" bit of poop.
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Post by Caretaker on Nov 3, 2011 13:47:47 GMT -6
Amen!!
Wastewater is 99.99% pure water, but I sure would not drink from a sewer or septic tank.
The notes on false modern prophets cam from a discussion with one who was placing great credence in dreams and visions.
2 Tim. 4:
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
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Post by S F Lord on Nov 3, 2011 17:49:47 GMT -6
Let me ask this question.
Can a born again believer have a vision today in regards to something that is for that person only to act upon?
I don't want this to seem like a set up question so I will tell you that it involves me and 2 visions that I have had.
I have also had 1, and only 1, dream that had spiritual meaning.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2011 18:41:09 GMT -6
May I ask,
what did the visions tell you or lead you to do?
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Post by Caretaker on Nov 3, 2011 21:21:35 GMT -6
The Word of God is complete, and we are certainly not to add to, or take away from. We should discount any new revelations which would contradict the Word of God or are a means to elevate such above God's Word in importance. Also of concern when they point to the person rather than to Christ and a Biblical walk of faith. God can move in the hearts and lives of His children, and can provide direction and insight. He calls His pastors, and He illuminates His Word in our understanding. He can speak as He desires. This from Got Questions: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ www.gotquestions.org/visions-Christian.htmlWe must keep in mind that the Bible is finished, and it tells us everything we need to know. The key truth is that if God were to give a vision, it would agree completely with what He has already revealed in His Word. Visions should never be given equal or greater authority than the Word of God. God’s Word is our ultimate authority for Christian faith and practice. If you believe you have had a vision and feel that perhaps God gave it to you, prayerfully examine the Word of God and make sure your vision is in agreement with Scripture. Then prayerfully consider what God would have you do in response to the vision (James 1:5). God would not give a vision to a person and then keep the meaning of the vision hidden. In Scripture, whenever a person asked God for the meaning of a vision, God made sure it was explained to the person (Daniel 8:15-17). ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2011 22:00:28 GMT -6
Amen to the last post . . . yes, we have a completed canon of Scripture. The word canon is from a word which means rule, or a straight line. Any deviations one way or the other would not fit the definition of "straight".
Now, if we are sitting at the bus stop and the Holy Spirit nudges us to give a tract, or witness, to the person sitting next to us, this would not be an extra-biblical direction, but rather a clear promise of the Scripture which tells us that the Spirit would lead, guide and direct us.
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Post by Keith on Nov 4, 2011 8:38:28 GMT -6
Correct Virgil. There is a difference between prophesying and Spiritual guidance. As Drew said, the Scriptures are complete and therefore sealed. However the Holy Spirit continues to lead and guide us to do the 'right' things throughout our lives.
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Post by S F Lord on Nov 4, 2011 8:47:00 GMT -6
However the Holy Spirit continues to lead and guide us to do the 'right' things throughout our lives. And that is my question, Can the Holy Spirit use Visions and Dreams to guide us to do the right things throughout our lives? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2011 9:03:43 GMT -6
Correct Virgil. There is a difference between prophesying and Spiritual guidance. As Drew said, the Scriptures are complete and therefore sealed. However the Holy Spirit continues to lead and guide us to do the 'right' things throughout our lives. The spirit-led man, yes, I agree, with this one clarification . . . He can only guide us to the extent that God's Word is our necessary meat. " Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee" (Psalms 119:11). A man ignorant of the principles of God's Word can not be led into all truth, so he will fall for error. Yet, the Holy Spirit will convict a lost man to turn to the Scriptures - but should he tell the Spirit no, the Spirit will not convince him against his will. He just leaves him alone. This, I believe, is the motivating factor behind you posting a daily Scripture. The Word can accomplish much more than hours of arguing. And it can bring a man to begin seeking further peace in his life by reading more . . . " So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Romans 10:17). |
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Murph
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Post by Murph on Nov 4, 2011 9:05:37 GMT -6
I think the Holy Spirit can and will use all avenues to guide us in our walk. But...to me 3 things should always be on our minds and in our hearts.
What the Bible says...
Trying the Spirits to see if they are of the Lord...
and descernment...
I am not the heavy weight in Bible knowlege that some of you are...but that is my test and measure...
So much of what is in the world today is false information...The Bible is always the best and truest measuring stick...
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Murph
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Post by Murph on Nov 4, 2011 9:06:59 GMT -6
Dont' forget prayer...
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Post by S F Lord on Nov 4, 2011 9:56:47 GMT -6
May I ask, what did the visions tell you or lead you to do? I will speak to one of the visions for now. In 1984 I had a vision, clear as day, that involved my oldest brother who was living in Fla. at the time. I saw 2 evil looking men putting handcuffs on my brother, behind his back. There was a stair case, leading down, that the 3 of them were standing by. I was off at a distance in the vision and my brother turned, and looked over his shoulder directly at me, and said: You Knew, Your KNEW but you never told me... With that, he was lead away by these 2 men toward the staircase. The vision ended, I have no idea how long it was, but I do know that I was not aware of my surroundings at the time. I was stunned, but in a instant I had no doubt this was from the Lord and had meaning. I quickly prayed Lord what was this, what are you saying, what does it mean. As quickly as I prayed I was overwhelmed with the meaning that came to me. My brother was being led to hell, his statement to me was that I knew about salvation, I should have told him, talked to him, BUT I NEVER DID.. Lord what should I do was my question for the next 4-5 days. Was I to get on a plane and fly to FL. to tell him. Through a letter I poured out my heart to him, gave him scripture to read. To fast forward at least 10 years, my brother passed away. I went to Fl for the funeral. Before the service I spoke to the pastor who officiated at the funeral and I shared with him the story of my vision. He smiled at me and said Bob, I was able to lead your brother to the Lord a few years ago. It was a true repentance and acceptence of the Lord as his Savior. God, through His mercy, chose this means to get my attention. Might I have found scripture that got my attenion, YES. Might I have heard a sermon that got my attenion, again, YES. But as I said, God chose to reveal this need, in that way and for that I am thankful. |
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Murph
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Post by Murph on Nov 4, 2011 10:07:42 GMT -6
thank you for sharing you story Bob. Brought to my mind the story of lazarus in Luke 16...
That man had 5 brothers who didn't know the Lord and were not saved...
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Post by Keith on Nov 4, 2011 12:56:18 GMT -6
However the Holy Spirit continues to lead and guide us to do the 'right' things throughout our lives. And that is my question, Can the Holy Spirit use Visions and Dreams to guide us to do the right things throughout our lives? I'm going to say no, because I think that's playing a little loose on the term 'dreams and visions.' That's an expression more for prophesying than for Spiritual leading/guidance. On a side note: Don't forget the Evil One can also place things in your mind. |
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Murph
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Post by Murph on Nov 4, 2011 13:53:46 GMT -6
Have been reading about the dreams and visions that people are having in the Middle East...especially among the Muslims...the dreams and visions are setting off conversions by the hundreds...hundreds of people are coming to Jesus and are being saved.
How would they fit in...they seem to be real visions real dreams, and real conversions?
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