Question on James 1

[Murph]

"Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death" James 1:15

"...bringeth forth death."

If James was writing to saved people...what death is he talking about?

[Keith]

He's talking about the death that comes from sin not covered by the blood of Jesus, in other words, what we once were:

"What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Romans 6:21-22)

[Murph]

That's what I thought...

[Deleted]

I agree with Keith that there is a penalty for sin in the unsaved, however, I also believe that there is a direct application to believers as well.

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren" (James 1:12-16).

If we ask the famous "who" question, we see that it is addressed to the beloved brethren (in Christ). One thing to note that in the New Testament Epistles, the lost are not spoken to, except indirectly . . . the message is entirely to Christians. Can we then lose our salvation? No, I do not believe so. But can we find a companion verse the clarify?

One verse is Paul's directions concerning the Lord's Table, and to those who partake of it. He wrote:

"Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep" (I Corinthians 11:27-30).

The operative word above is "sleep", or "death".

Many Christians go to an early grave because they take the things of God lightly and ruin their testimonies. The wages of sin is death. The difference is that with the unbelievers, that death is eternal . . . in fact, they have never known "life" to lose it. With the Christian, it is temporary and only until the resurrection.

God chastises His children, and some He chastens with death because they are unwilling to heed to instructions.

The primary audience in James' book is to believers. They allow themselves to be tempted, and blame God for their failings, rather than accept responsibility for their own faults. In a sense, they are blaspheming God by saying that He is the Author of their sins (such as with Adam who actually blamed God for his sin because it was God that gave him the woman who tempted him).

Sin is like a seed that is planted and grows into a vast tree of hardness, to the point where repentance is no longer desired. I can well remember the immediate days after my salvation, how horrible it was to sin and how bad I felt. Now, thirty-some years later, there is no longer those immediate feelings of shame and sadness that I had hurt God's heart. We all harden to some extent over time.

Thank God for I John 1:8-10, where we read: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us" (I John 1:8-10).

Yes, we sin, but there is a remedy for it, for we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ. But if we ignore our Advocate and continue to pour sin upon sin without an approach to our Advocate, we become sin-hardened and built a fortress against God.

Rather than allow us to destroy our testimony beyond repair, God in His grace takes us home, as a country might recall an errant ambassador.

[Keith]

Amen to what you offered Virgil, but isn't that a different context than the verse in James? Your Scripture offerings are talking about saved people sinning, and the James reference is more about prior to one's salvation, right?

[Murph]

I thought James was writing to saved people and was talking about the fruits of sin.

Was I wrong?

[Keith]

He is, but I think Virgil's on another subject: Saved people sinning, which could lead to a 'sin unto death'.

"If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it." (1 John 5:16)

Adrian Rogers preached on this one day and told the story of a saved man who came to him for couseling about a recurring sin in his life which was very serious. Adrian told him he'd better stop, that God could get fed up if he didn't stop, and could simply take him Home.

The man refused to stop. He was dead in less than a month. He'd committed a sin unto death.

[Deleted]

I can see where there can be some confusion on the idea of a "crown of life", as many believe this is speaking of salvation. I do not believe that it is.

Here is a quote from H. A. Ironside that might be helpful, presented in in the booklet, "Eternal Security," published by Loizeaux Brothers:

A crown of life is not salvation; it is reward. There are five crowns ... the crown of life for those who suffer for Christ; .... I might lose all of those crowns and yet not lose my salvation. The Word says, 'If any man's work shall be burned .... he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire' (1 Corinthians 3:15). But I do not want to be saved that way. I want to win the crown of life. 'Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life' (pp. 42-3).

Otherwise, James is speaking of things that only a saved man can experience . . . such as temptation. A lost man is unable to experience spiritual things in any capacity. He is able to admit that he is lost and in need of a Saviour, but until he does, he is totally without any spiritual capacity.

[Deleted]

A lost man is already dead, so it is impossible for death to be a process to him. In James, we see sin as something being conceived and allowed to grow and become something worse, which is like a maturation in hardness. Ultimately, yes, it does become the 'sin unto death.' John speaks of this sin, but he doesn't really expound on it - but since the Bible is built upon chapter upon chapter, verse upon verse, concept upon concept; we need other sections and passages to present us with the whole truth . . . in an ongoing revelation. This is where we understand the "whole counsel of God."

[veterinarian]

Nov 17, 2011 16:59:00 GMT -6 @bbb said:

In James, we see sin as something being conceived and allowed to grow and become something worse, which is like a maturation in hardness. Ultimately, yes, it does become the 'sin unto death.'

I have always understood James 1 as referring to a Christian who continues to sin until God takes him to heaven (I always thought like the situation that Keith talks about above).

[Murph]

Asked that question of a friend who is a preacher down in NC and here is his answer...

Hey Tim, got a question on James 1 . "Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death" James 1:15

"...bringeth forth death."

If James was writing to saved people...what death is he talking about?


Tim said... Cool question! All sin kills relationship with God, even if only for a moment.

[Deleted]

Great answer! We humans often think of things in the final consequences, but he is so right. Well, I will say right but I think the word "fellowship" is more appropriate.

We have a relationship with our children . . . they will be our children forever, nothing can sever that bond. However, our fellowship with our children can be impacted by death, or by one of us moving away a long distance.

We become children of God and joint heirs with Christ at the very instant of our salvation - and that is an eternal bond of relationship. Our sin breaks our fellowship with God, and the closeness has broken so that heaven seems to be further away, and our prayers seem to bounce off of our ceilings.

The subject of salvation is so deep and complicated that scientists and theologians will never run out of questions in order to discuss its many ramifications . . . yet, salvation is so simple that a five-year old knows all he needs to knows to possess it, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16).