Murph
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Jude
Sept 21, 2006 12:59:46 GMT -6
Post by Murph on Sept 21, 2006 12:59:46 GMT -6
Keith
I explored several option for the second witness also, since Malachi 4:5 tell us Elijah is one of the two. I also finally settled on Moses as the most distinct possibility for the same reasons you stated.
Steve...
Intresting comments and observations. Our society today seems to be a feel good self centered tree huggin' bunch of sissies...if it hurts medicate it...if your are sad medicate it...if life hands you lemons medicate it...
Met with a family today for the first time. About 2 minutes into the conversation I learned that the parents are on prescribed medications for several "nervous" conditions. The child has a multipal diagnoses ranging from ADHD to boarderline schycopherinnniea...I never could spell that word...he has 5 different diagnosis and 5 different medications...he is taking 400 mg of serequil at night to calm him down enough to sleep and it is enough to tranqualize a mid sized elephant...he almost fell asleep in mid sentence while talking to me. That is in addition to several psychotropic meds.
And people live like that and think it is normal...and normal to medicate their children into a zombie state...the child was brought to me because he intentionally set himself on fire...because it feels good...
No one can convice me we are not rapidly approaching the last days...
imagine what it is going to be like once the Church is gone...things are going to spiral out of control so fast...it will be a blurr to those left behind...and their trouble will be just beginning...
Throw God's 21 judgments into the mix...well imagine Katrinas happening all over the world and the tsumini in Indonesia goin on everywhere. Imagine waking up one day to fine all the water was blood and there was none to drink. Imagine hail the size of 100 pound boulders crashing all around and fire falling from the sky...insects chasing people and people trying to kill themselves and not being able to die...huge armies of supernatural horses and horsemen like nothing ever seen riding out of the dark...
and that is just for starters...
then it gets bad...
Makes ya want to go jerk people up by the lapels and tell them...Now is the time while there is still time to Repent and Turn to Jesus!!!
Amen?
sorry...got a bit wound up...
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Murph
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Jude
Sept 21, 2006 21:06:07 GMT -6
Post by Murph on Sept 21, 2006 21:06:07 GMT -6
We first meet Satan in the garden in Chapter 3 of Genesis. He is beguiling Eve from the body of a serpent. It has been said that the serpent was probably a creature of great beauty, possibly even had wings...probably almost irridescent and many colored...
But it wasn't the serpent that Eve was drawn to. It was a supernatural being full of enchantment, appearing glorious, and very intellegent, full of knowlege. Eve must have been fasinated.
We see the serpant for the last time in Revelation 20. He is referred to as the old serpent and chapter 3 of Genesis comes back to mind...the word "old" sends our minds back to the beginning.
Read Ezekiel's description of Satan as he was orignally created...
"...Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee." Ezekiel 28:12b-17
How great was his glory and what a beautiful creature he must have been before he fell from Glory.
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Murph
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Jude
Sept 21, 2006 21:29:02 GMT -6
Post by Murph on Sept 21, 2006 21:29:02 GMT -6
Though he is probably old and twisted by hate and pride, his former wisdom twisted into evil cunning...he still must retain some of that former glory and he still wields enormous power. He is in command of the dogs of hell...great armies of evil spirit beings who are capable of great destruction. They are all driven by a great and burning hatred of God and all human beings.
The amazing thing, as Keith said earlier, is that Satan once stood on the Holy Mount of God...looked at the Lord in His Glory...knows our Father's greater Power and Might...and the devil still thinks he can win...that he can somehow defeat God Almighty!
Michael "durst not bring against him a railing accusation." It was not Michael's mission to mock Satan. He did not try to attack Satan. The Scripture says he did not dare(durst not).
The Archangel Michael of Heaven...armed with the Power and Might of God...confronted the very author of sin and evil with respect for Satan's past glory, age, position...the ragged toothless lion of old. Michael treated the devil with a measure of respect and was not discourteous to him..
Jude compares this to the apostates who "despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities."
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Murph
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Jude
Sept 21, 2006 21:52:04 GMT -6
Post by Murph on Sept 21, 2006 21:52:04 GMT -6
From time to time we are all tempted to despise dominion and to speak evil of dignities. Especially today in our 21 century "post modern" world when so many people are in power who we consider to be evil and dishonest. Satan will ack quickly to sieze the opportunity to play on that human weakness that is a tendency of our fallen nature.
At one time or another we fall prey to that temptation. We need to be ever mindful of this...repent, turn back to the Lord. We need to thank God for the cleansing Blood of Jesus.
The contrast between the backslidden believer, the carnal Christian and an apostate is that we believers, are almost instantly guilty, sorry and turn back to the Lord for cleansing. The apostate on the other hand thinks he is perfectly justified in what ever he says and does...and keeps the company of others of like minds. The difference is the Holy Spirit Who convicts the believer...
If we were able to look far back into the heart of a backslidden believer we would be able to find Christ.
If we were able to look into the heart of the apostate we would find a deep, dark, hole...with nothing in it.
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Murph
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Jude
Sept 21, 2006 22:05:49 GMT -6
Post by Murph on Sept 21, 2006 22:05:49 GMT -6
"But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves." v. 10
At another MB they are discussing Rick Warren. They are charting his fall into complete apostacy. The further down he goes, the louder and bolder he gets, the more outlandish his reason and logic becomes...or rather the lack of it.
He is an excellent modern example of an apostate.
The other thing that is so amazing and alarming is, how many people are going down with him.
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Murph
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Jude
Sept 21, 2006 22:18:24 GMT -6
Post by Murph on Sept 21, 2006 22:18:24 GMT -6
"Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools..." Roman 1:19-22
God gave them up.
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Murph
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Jude
Oct 13, 2006 21:33:41 GMT -6
Post by Murph on Oct 13, 2006 21:33:41 GMT -6
Verse 9 of Jude speaks of Moses, his death, and how the Lord burried him. In reading later I ran across this poem.
It is by M. S. Alexander
By Nebo's lonely mountain, on this side of Jordan's wave In a vale in the land of Moab There lies a lonely grave; And no man knows that sepulcher, And no man saw it e'er, For the angels of God upturned the sod And laid the dead man there.
Amid the noblest of the land Men lay the sage to rest, And give the bard an honour'd place, With costly marble dress'd, In the great minster transept, Where lights like glories fall, And the organ rings, and the sweet choir sings, Along the emblazon'd wall.
This was the truest warrior That ever buckled sword; This the most gifted poet That ever breathed a word; And never earth's philosopher Traced with his golden pen On the deathless page truths half so sage As he wrote down for men.
And had he not high honor-- The hillside for a pall; To lie in state, while angels wait, With stars for tapers tall, And the dark rock-pines, like tossing plumes Over his bier to wave, And God's own hand in that lonely land To lay him in the grave.
M. S. Alexander Dawn Magazine June 15, 1929
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Murph
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Jude
Oct 22, 2006 19:47:03 GMT -6
Post by Murph on Oct 22, 2006 19:47:03 GMT -6
"Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core."
The Holy Spirit has used three places to illustrate apostacy. Now He is going to use three people.
Cain, Balaam, and Korah...
So we will follow the Holy Spirit back to the Old Testament to see who they are and why the Holy Spirit has chosen them. We will see if we can see what He is showing us.
Cain is the first. Interestingly, he is also the first person to be born on the planet. Cain was a religious man. He did reconize on some level a need for God in his life, but he wanted God in his life on his own terms. He refused to approach God on God's terms by shedding the blood of a lame. Instead offered the work of his own hands.
In doing that he invented his own religion based on his own ideas and furthered by his own efforts.
When God rejected Cain's efforts. Cain showed his unteachableness. He would not repent though God gave him ample opportunity. When God rejected Cain's offering...instead of repenting he turned in his fury on his own brother Abel whose lamb God had accepted...and murdered him.
Cain became the "father" of all apostate religions and demonstrated what they are like. He was unwilling to kill a lamb but very willing to kill his brother.
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Jude
Oct 22, 2006 20:11:29 GMT -6
Post by snowrosies on Oct 22, 2006 20:11:29 GMT -6
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Murph
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Jude
Oct 22, 2006 20:29:27 GMT -6
Post by Murph on Oct 22, 2006 20:29:27 GMT -6
"...Without the shedding of blood is no remission..." Hebrews 9:22
This is what "catches in the craw" of apostate religion today. To deny the tool of salvation, the Blood of Jesus, is to deny the revealed word on the salvation offered by God.
False religions put the emphasis on human reasonings and on good works. Good works as the means of salvation appears to be the thread that ties all false religions together and is the basic idea behind cults.
It is very evident it is the underpinning of the liberalism we see emerging in the liberal churches today.
For example in the Mormon church young people are expected to donate 2 years of their lives to peddeling Mormonism. Jehovah's Witnesses are expected to go door to door peddeling their cults magazines and books. They do this to earn merit...
You can read about Cain in Genesis 3:1-8:22; Hebrews 11:4; and 1John 3:11-12.
Next "woe" goes to those who "...ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward."
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Jude
Oct 24, 2006 15:35:49 GMT -6
Post by snowrosies on Oct 24, 2006 15:35:49 GMT -6
"...Without the shedding of blood is no remission..." Hebrews 9:22
This is what "catches in the craw" of apostate religion today. To deny the tool of salvation, the Blood of Jesus, is to deny the revealed word on the salvation offered by God. I agree with that Amen duck . do you know they say some new religion is formed more in this age than anyother!! yiiiikes that tells us what time it is on the countdown
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Jude
Oct 24, 2006 15:36:49 GMT -6
Post by snowrosies on Oct 24, 2006 15:36:49 GMT -6
"...Without the shedding of blood is no remission..." Hebrews 9:22 This is what "catches in the craw" of apostate religion today. To deny the tool of salvation, the Blood of Jesus, is to deny the revealed word on the salvation offered by God. I agree with that Amen duck . do you know they say some new religion is formed more in this age than anyother!! yiiiikes that tells us what time it is on the countdown
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Murph
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Jude
Nov 5, 2006 21:38:56 GMT -6
Post by Murph on Nov 5, 2006 21:38:56 GMT -6
“Woe unto them! For they…ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward.”
Balaam lived in Mesopotamia. Abraham had come from there years before. Balaam was a soothsayer or what we would call today a psychic and he was well known at his trade. King Balak who was at that time king of Moab had heard about him.
The Hebrews were traveling, headed for Canaan, and had reached the boarders of Moab. They posed no real threat to his kingdom but the King thought they did. King Balak was just as opposed to the Hebrews settling in Canaan as the Arab states of today oppose the reborn Nation of Israel.
Balak had also heard of the God if Israel. He knew the power of God and how the enemies of the Hebrews seemed to melt away before them. Balak was terrified and called for Balaam…Balak wanted to try sorcery. Balak offered a fat financial reward if Balaam would come to Moab and curse the Hebrews.
Balaam tried 4 different times to curse the Hebrews to earn what the Bible calls “the wages of unrighteousness…” 2 Peter 2:15. Every time he tried to his amazement and confusion, God changed the curse into a blessing. The King got furious and Balaam could see his money slipping right through his fingers, and that he was in danger of losing his life.
That was when Balaam made quite a suggestion to the King. In essence Balaam said, “My lord King, there’s more than one way to get this thing done. Since you can’t curse them, why not corrupt them. Use the temple harlots and I guarantee you their God will judge them if you can just get them engaged in immorality…even better if you can link their immorality to the worship of your pagan gods. Their God is a jealous God.”
To make a long story short, Balaam’s plan was very successful. Down Israel went before the temptation and down Israel went before the avenging Hand of God. Balaam collected his money and stayed, it appears to enjoy the ill-gotten gain…the fruits of his evil.
Balaam had known God. He knew about the authoritative, inerrant, inspired, and revealed Word of God. He turned traitor to what he knew and he used his knowledge instead to make money. He paid a high price in the end. He died under Joshua’s sword.
Balaam is used throughout the New Testament as a type of apostate.
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Murph
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Jude
Nov 5, 2006 22:54:14 GMT -6
Post by Murph on Nov 5, 2006 22:54:14 GMT -6
What is pictured with this example is a lust for money and a lust for money at any price even though it involves the destruction of the beliefs and behaviors of others. There are men like that today and we can all name them. They are without scruples or conscience, eager to make religion pay.
Furthermore, Balaam represents people who deny that there is anything significant about Israel’s return to the Promised Land it seems to me. Balaam stood squarely on the side of those who denied Israel’s right to the land. He knew better from the illumination by the Holy Spirit both before he went to Moab and during his 4 failed attempts to curse Israel. Yet he continued to maintain the anti-Biblical position that the Promised Land really belonged to Moab, or modern Jordan, and to the Canaanites, or modern Arabs.
Liberals today say that God washed His Hands of Israel when they murdered Jesus. They say that the church is now spiritual Israel and that all the promises of the Old Testament now belong to the church.
Now wouldn’t Balaam have loved that position?
The error of Balaam…and people are in hot pursuit of it today…
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Murph
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Jude
Nov 5, 2006 22:58:47 GMT -6
Post by Murph on Nov 5, 2006 22:58:47 GMT -6
You can read more about the error of Balaam in Numbers 22:2; 3:31:7-16; Deuteronomy 23:3-6; Joshua 13:22; 24:9; Nehemiah 13:2; Micah 6:5; Revelation 2:14
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Murph
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Jude
Jan 13, 2008 18:29:01 GMT -6
Post by Murph on Jan 13, 2008 18:29:01 GMT -6
Korah or Core had come up in another discussion here at Divine Intervention and it reminded me of this study which I hadn't finished. As it turns out...I had left off at the "gainsaying of Core..."
So this evening we will pick it up there and move thru Jude...see what the Holy Spirit has to say on the subject of Apostacy which we are facing with increasing intensity today.
He tell us about it in the book of Jude...so often referred to as the Vestibule of Revelations...
We pick the study of Jude up at verse 11 part c...
"Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward,
and perished in the gainsaying of Core."
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Murph
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Jude
Jan 13, 2008 18:36:51 GMT -6
Post by Murph on Jan 13, 2008 18:36:51 GMT -6
This is also an example of why the study of the Old Testement is so important. To understand more clearly what Jude is telling us we need to know who Core was and the significance of that story. Then we can fast forward and apply it to what the Holy Spirit is saying in Jude.
It all plugs in, interlaces, and overlaps.
History truly does repeat itself over and over again and we see it.
Yet we don't learn.
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Murph
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Jude
Jan 13, 2008 20:25:39 GMT -6
Post by Murph on Jan 13, 2008 20:25:39 GMT -6
"Woe unto them!...for they have...perished in the gainsaying of Core."
or Korah.
Who was Korah?
He was a Levite. He was a member of the tribe set apart by God to minister to the spiritual needs of Old Testament Israel both in the wilderness and later in the Promised Land.
He was a cousin of Moses and Aaron. Like Moses and Aaron he was a descendant of Kohath.
The father of Moses and Aaron was Amram. Korah's father was Amran's brother Izhar. One of the sons of Korah was Elkanah who was the ancester of Samuel.
There were 3 Levitical families...those descended from Gershon, those descended from Kohath, and those descended from Merari. The prominant family appears to have been the Kohathite family no doubt because of its relationship with Moses and Aaron. It was to this family that the priesthood was entrusted in Israel, thru Aaron.
When Israel was camped around the Tabernacle in the wilderness according to God's orders...Moses, Aaron and the priests camped on the east side between the Tabernacle and the tribes of Issachar, Judah, and Zebulon. The Kohathites occupied a lesser position on the south side, between the Tabernacle and the tribes of Simeon, Reuben, and Gad.
Simeon and Ruben were the least renouned of the tribes. Jacob in his final prophey had put both of them in a position of inferiority. Most probably in the placement around the Tabernacle the intention was that the stronger of the Levitical families, namely the family of Korath, would strengthen their weaker brethern in the tribes of Reuben, Simeon, and Gad.
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Murph
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Jude
Jan 13, 2008 20:42:02 GMT -6
Post by Murph on Jan 13, 2008 20:42:02 GMT -6
Going to backtrack now and look at two words and what they mean and signify.
The first is the word "gainsaying." Jude accuses Core of "gainsaying." The word translated "gainsay" means "to contradict." The inference or picture it paints for us is vigorous opposition, by action as well as by words.
When we look at other references where the same word is used we find it used in Hebrews 12:3. There is describes the opposition Jesus faced and overcame..."Consider Him that endured such contradictions of sinners against Himself"
In Hebrews 6:16 the same word is translated "strife" When men take an oath, that puts an end to strife the writer tells us.
Jude tells us that Core "perished." The word translated perish indicates utter and final ruin and destruction. Again we go to other places the same word is used and we find John 3:16 where it is the opposite of eternal life. It means to destroy completely. Luke 5:37 uses it to address the "ruined wineskins."
So we can conclude that the word "perish" is describing the condition of the lost in eternity.
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Murph
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Jude
Jan 13, 2008 21:56:03 GMT -6
Post by Murph on Jan 13, 2008 21:56:03 GMT -6
Core wasn't satisfied with his place in life.
Each family from the tribe of Levi was assigned a special service in connection with the Tabernacle and its furniture. The most important jobs were given to the family of Kohath. They were to act first when the movemnet of the Shekinah Glory Cloud indicated it was time for the camp to move on.
They were responsible for taking down the veil and covering the Ark with it. They transported the table of showbread, the lampstand, the golden altar, and all of the supporting pieces.
When the princes of Israel donated wagons to help in transporting the Tabernacle from place to place they were divided between families. In all, 6 wagons and 12 ox were donated . Moses gave the family of Gershon 2 wagons and 4 ox. He gave the family of Merari 4 wagons and 8 ox. "But to the sons of Kohath he gave none" Numbers 7:9
Moses then explained why. "Because," he said, " the service of the sanctuary belonging unto them was that they should bear upon their shoulders" v. 9
The best work, the highest, and holiest work was to be done by hand.
The Ark and all that accompanied it was not going to loaded on a wagon to be jolted along pulled by beast. It was alright for boards and bars...and what not, to be carried that way but not the golden furniture of the Holy place and the Holiest of Holies. That kind of work was to be done by hand carried shoulder high.
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