Murph
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Post by Murph on May 13, 2012 14:17:24 GMT -6
Question...
1 Peter 3:18-19 & Luke 16:19-31
Did Jesus descend into Hades during the 3 days His body was in the tomb?
Would be interested in reading your responses.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2012 14:52:56 GMT -6
Not into "hell" as the place of the doomed, but rather to "paradise" which was in the same area, separated by a gulf, also known as "Abraham's bosom" (the place where Lazarus went after dying). The rich man, commonly called Dives, was able to see him across the pit.
This was the captivity that Jesus let captive, by carrying the entire region up to, but just under, the throne of God. This area is seen by John in Revelation.
"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled" (Revelation 6:9-11).
After the Second Coming of Christ on the mount of Olives, this region will be brought back to earth as the Millennial Kingdom begins.
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Murph
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Post by Murph on May 13, 2012 15:05:43 GMT -6
"By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Preached unto the spirits in prison...
Doesn't it look like He also went to the side the rich man was on...
not just the side we refer to Abraham's Bosom but the other side of Hades too?
Then there is Isaiah 61:1...supports what you have said...but didn't Jesus go to both sides? Spirits is the word that I hang up on. People have souls...demons are evil spirits. Then there are the fallen angels bound in that realm...also spirits.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2012 17:26:21 GMT -6
He probably did preach (speak) to the souls on the other side. If the rich man could speak to Abrhaham, why could not Jesus speak to them as well.
I don't know what He said . . . what could He say? Maybe to explain to them that the reason they are there is because they rejected faith in the blood of Abel's faith. And now, that same word is passed on to every new arrival.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2012 17:33:49 GMT -6
As to Isaiah 61, it is my view that this applies to his earthly ministry.
The verses of II Peter go on to say . . .
"Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him" (I Peter 3:20-22).
Let's imagine a possible conversation in that region on that day.
"Jesus, why did God send a flood to destroy us, and taking away our chance to ever be saved?"
"My Father sent faithful Noah to preach to you, explaining to you that salvation was to be had by coming into the ark, which you refused to do. I am that Ark! You could have been saved by placing your trust in the coming Messiah. If enough of you had done that, you would be here on this side of the chasm. The flood did not save Noah. It was being inside the ark. Outside he would have perished, along with you, without faith."
Today, so many have it backwards. They point to the flood and then try to prove that it is the water of baptism that saves - but it is not. It is what the waters represent . . . an accomplished feat . . . complete salvation. The only thing that baptism does is to demonstrate the death, burial and resurrection of the new believer.
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Murph
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Post by Murph on May 13, 2012 19:33:23 GMT -6
Could be the jist of what Jesus preached to the spirits in Hades...
"My Father sent faithful Noah to preach to you, explaining to you that salvation was to be had by coming into the ark, which you refused to do. I am that Ark! You could have been saved by placing your trust in the coming Messiah. If enough of you had done that, you would be here on this side of the chasm. The flood did not save Noah. It was being inside the ark. Outside he would have perished, along with you, without faith."
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Murph
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Post by Murph on May 13, 2012 19:40:56 GMT -6
Thanks Virgil...
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Murph
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Post by Murph on May 14, 2012 8:17:01 GMT -6
Yesterday was the substitute's day to teach the SS lesson. She used that occassion to "correct" something I had said the week before about the story Jesus told of Lazarus and the rich man then gave me no chance to re-but.
It made me very angry so before I go after the issue I wanted to make sure I was reading Peter right because it is Peter who told me Jesus ascended into Hades to preach to the Spirits and to bring the OT saint to Heaven with Him.
Virgil agrees with me so will pray on it and next Sunday, Lord willing, will straighten out the matter. I, unfortunately, am just as angry today as I was yesterday...so will pray hard on it. Glad there is a week in between.
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Post by Keith on May 14, 2012 9:01:41 GMT -6
Yes, Virgil's synopsis is correct that the rich man/Lazarus story establishes Paradise and Hell are across from one another separated by a great chasm (Luke 16:22-31). Upon His crucifixion, Jesus descended into Paradise and took the Old Testament Saints to Heaven (Ephesians 4:8-10). Hell has enlarged itself (Isaiah 5:14), but is it because of this?
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Murph
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Post by Murph on May 14, 2012 9:14:10 GMT -6
Thanks Keith. There is some vindication in the agreement of two brothers. I did read and listen to what Jesus and Peter were telling me and correctly understood.
I am loading my shotgun as we read and type. Both barrels.
btw...what she said was that she didn't know where Jesus went during those 3 days in the tomb, if anywhere...maybe into the presence of God? but not to Hades...said there is a debate on it...
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Murph
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Post by Murph on May 14, 2012 9:27:42 GMT -6
add Luke and Paul to that list...of witnesses...
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Post by Keith on May 14, 2012 10:00:10 GMT -6
...what she said was that she didn't know where Jesus went during those 3 days in the tomb, if anywhere...maybe into the presence of God? but not to Hades... Ask her: Then how did the saved souls in Paradise get to Heaven. Hint: It wasn't by elevator. ;D
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Murph
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Post by Murph on May 14, 2012 10:05:21 GMT -6
;D
put that in my load for my shotgun...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 10:49:28 GMT -6
Before you two trade blows, could you maybe have your daughter bring her video camera? I want to watch!
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Murph
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Post by Murph on May 14, 2012 11:07:25 GMT -6
My Dad always said...kill 'em with kindness...so I plan to.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 11:12:05 GMT -6
still . . . bring the camera! you never know ;D
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Murph
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Post by Murph on May 14, 2012 15:14:31 GMT -6
I don't have a camel...would that be for a quick get away?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 18:48:33 GMT -6
I said c a m e r a . . . somebody needs to get back to their local optometrist . . .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 18:51:22 GMT -6
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Murph
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Post by Murph on May 14, 2012 21:06:25 GMT -6
did you say fight?
last name is Murphy...got an Irish temper to go with that...
;D
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